UAL Mil Pilot Program

[Lawman]

I think it’s a way to start a conversation 1-2 years away from a class date. It’s a soft commit and HR isn’t a slave to a six month recruiting cycle. It gives O-3’s and O-4’s a chance to plan their escape from active duty to their best advantage.

This.

I can tell you I already sent this programs information to half a dozen guys I know who plan to UQR (unqualified resignation) once they hit the end of their commitment.

This is a dangerously enticing program when the Army seems hell bent on “you’ll take your PCS to Korea/deployment to EUCOM and like it!”


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[Pilot Fighter]

This.

I can tell you I already sent this programs information to half a dozen guys I know who plan to UQR (unqualified resignation) once they hit the end of their commitment.

This is a dangerously enticing program when the Army seems hell bent on “you’ll take your PCS to Korea/deployment to EUCOM and like it!”


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This will save a few marriages.

 

[MikeD]

This will save a few marriages.

If the military wanted you to have a spouse, they would’ve issued you one.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

If the military wanted you to have a spouse, they would’ve issued you one.

Marry for love, divorce to keep from splitting your retirement.

 

[Ian_J]

It is odd that the program is only for active duty greater than 6 months from separation. Yet reserve mil (such as full time reservists) have to apply through the regular process. Not sure why active duty-only would have their “wings be their credential”, which is Soku’s valid question. Am mildly curious myself what the HR logic is.

It's a good question and I regrettably sent the details of this program to all my guard bubbas before I read the fine print and had to mea culpa it.

That said, there was no program before. Now there is one that makes employment easier for a specific group of people. No one outside that group was negatively affected by it.

And to be honest, if qualified military guard/ reserve pilots want in, they'll probably get in. I just flew with a 24 year old FO who graduated college, did 2 years at a regional, never upgraded, and got hired. Their resume enhancers included volunteering and union work.

 

[MikeD]

That said, there was no program before. Now there is one that makes employment easier for a specific group of people. No one outside that group was negatively affected by it.

The only hiccup I would have is the term “your wings are your credential”. As you well know, Guard/Reserve pilots earn and wear the same exact wings of their active duty counterparts, in the same service; most of whom are former active duty anyway. So that line is a misnomer, and if there would be a negatively affected group based on that, it would indeed be the Guard/Reserve peeps.

 

[Ian_J]

The only hiccup I would have is the term “your wings are your credential”. As you well know, Guard/Reserve pilots earn and wear the same exact wings of their active duty counterparts, in the same service; most of whom are former active duty anyway. So that line is a misnomer, and if there would be a negatively affected group based on that, it would indeed be the Guard/Reserve peeps.

Well, their wings are certainly poo-pooed for no good reason, but their hiring chances haven’t been changed either way.

 

[MikeD]

Well, their wings are certainly poo-pooed for no good reason, but their hiring chances haven’t been changed either way.

That’s the thing, I think the program without that catch-phrase statement which does (perhaps unintentionally) poo-poo reservists; would still be a very successful one for attracting active duty people early on a path to your shop.

 

[Ian_J]

That’s the thing, I think the program without that catch-phrase statement which does (perhaps unintentionally) poo-poo reservists; would still be a very successful one for attracting active duty people early on a path to your shop.

Yeah, agreed.

 

[MikeD]

Yeah, agreed.

I can swear something like this was trying to be negotiated with the Air Force many years ago, perhaps in the 90s, and of course the AF leadership was shocked and dumbfounded that anyone would want to leave the great life of military service with its never ending deployment cycles. . And it never went anywhere. So now, the airlines have just started it themselves. And good on them.

 

[Lawman]

I can swear something like this was trying to be negotiated with the Air Force many years ago, perhaps in the 90s, and of course the AF leadership was shocked and dumbfounded that anyone would want to leave the great life of military service with its never ending deployment cycles. . And it never went anywhere. So now, the airlines have just started it themselves. And good on them.

I told a couple very senior Army Aviation leaders we were screwed when RTP first became a thing and they balked at it. They were trying to survey my year group (the one they couldn’t get to take the bonus) on why we were electing to leave at 8-14 years with retirement so close.

I put it very simply that the first few guys RTP’ing were just the water dripping over the spillway before the damn burst open. As soon as those guys navigated the way they would be reaching back to tell their buddies how worth it their decision was to get out before retirement.

A few years ago one of those Colonels who was now wearing a Star actually emailed me to apologize for not seeing it for what it was.


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[///AMG]

I’m all for it. Don’t really care how it is worded. Like Lawman and others said, more ammunition to tell the detailer/monitor to get bent when they try to tell you that some hardship unaccompanied garbage non-flying job is what you have to go do. That, or you take it knowing you can come back to a job without being current. The guard/reserve guys who are eligible already have their names in the hat(s). They’re trying to pull deep, like was said before, to secure the next generation that isn’t quite ready to pull out of the oven yet. Smart

I dont want or need to see the military perpetually (and increasingly) undermanned to vindicate my own personal decision. It shouldn’t be this way, and it doesn’t have to be. I want our good guys who are still having fun to stick around. This program can be great for them too. But the DoD and the bigger picture of DC, has been f***king us hard and putting us away wet, with too little to get the job done, for far too long. It’s been this way since I’ve been around. I imagine it has been this way since guys like Mike and Ian were around too. It is painful, but the military is paying the piper for the bad manning and politically inspired operational decisions that have been making continuously for > 20 years. It just took a long time for things to come to a head.

 

[Ian_J]

I’m all for it. Don’t really care how it is worded. Like Lawman and others said, more ammunition to tell the detailer/monitor to get bent when they try to tell you that some hardship unaccompanied garbage non-flying job is what you have to go do. That, or you take it knowing you can come back to a job without being current. The guard/reserve guys who are eligible already have their names in the hat(s). They’re trying to pull deep, like was said before, to secure the next generation that isn’t quite ready to pull out of the oven yet. Smart

I dont want or need to see the military perpetually (and increasingly) undermanned to vindicate my own personal decision. It shouldn’t be this way, and it doesn’t have to be. I want our good guys who are still having fun to stick around. This program can be great for them too. But the DoD and the bigger picture of DC, has been f***king us hard and putting us away wet, with too little to get the job done, for far too long. It’s been this way since I’ve been around. I imagine it has been this way since guys like Mike and Ian were around too. It is painful, but the military is paying the piper for the bad manning and politically inspired operational decisions that have been making continuously for > 20 years. It just took a long time for things to come to a head.

This is spot on.

Except lumping @MikeD and I together for how long we’ve been around. He’s way older. Like way. Wait, I enlisted in 1993… does that make me old?

 

[Lawman]

This is spot on.

Except lumping @MikeD and I together for how long we’ve been around. He’s way older. Like way. Wait, I enlisted in 1993… does that make me old?

I had to explain to a Lt what Y2K was the other day.

Yes, we are all old.


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[Ian_J]

I had to explain to a Lt what Y2K was the other day.

Yes, we are all old.


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For sure. At my current job I’m usually a relief officer - if it’s double augment there’s usually a third FO… they are often people born after I joined the army. It’s weird. And they make basically what I make in salary which makes me think I screwed up at some point. I couldn’t imagine being 24 and making this salary.

That said, before I retired the new Lieutenants seemed super smart and with it. These 20 something FOs are the same. Maybe it’s distorted hindsight but I swear I was a complete dumbass at that age.

 

[///AMG]

This is spot on.

Except lumping @MikeD and I together for how long we’ve been around. He’s way older. Like way. Wait, I enlisted in 1993… does that make me old?

You’re old. Mike is really old, but you’re old

 

[///AMG]

I had to explain to a Lt what Y2K was the other day.

Yes, we are all old.


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Haha OMG.

 

[///AMG]

For sure. At my current job I’m usually a relief officer - if it’s double augment there’s usually a third FO… they are often people born after I joined the army. It’s weird. And they make basically what I make in salary which makes me think I screwed up at some point. I couldn’t imagine being 24 and making this salary.

That said, before I retired the new Lieutenants seemed super smart and with it. These 20 something FOs are the same. Maybe it’s distorted hindsight but I swear I was a complete dumbass at that age.

I’ve come to realize that the current salary options for new gen Z (or whatever generation is just entering the workforce) are very different than those of us 20 years (or more) ago. When I left engineering school, we were highly paid, and could expect to start at maybe 60-80k, at a good job. Nowadays, I think in urban areas, we are talking 200k. It’s wild. I think the same things, but man, it is just a different time. I do remember my (much older, probably Mikes age) Brother in law, talking about his software engineering job at intel, which he retired from recently after 20+ years. He was paid $175k. I make almost double that now. So i think you just cant compare yourself to newer generations. Kinda like my dad once telling me “well as an O-3 (in the 1960s) I made $10/month”

 

[Pilot Fighter]

For pilots, is TERA being used for anything other than to facilitate transition to Reserves or Guard? It seems that it could be a powerful and flexible retention tool.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Don’t have to have an ATP to get hired but you have to get it before you show up for class. Outside of that, I’m not very familiar.

Kinda hard not to reach R-ATP numbers if fixed wing and completing service commitment.