There are still great companies out there!!!

TexasFlyer

Living the Dream (well at least trying to)
I debated writing this for a few weeks. It's not really an announcement for me sine I don't have much to show yet as I can not log any time in this job. I just keep reading on here how companies expect F.O.s and pilots young in experience to work for poverty wages. Young pilots driven by gaining flight hours but forgetting to enjoy the ride. And also companies that treat their young pilots terrible. So I thought it would be worth the write up on here to show an example of a great company with a great aircraft owner and PIC at the helm.

For the last month I been working on a contract position flying as a F.O. on a C510 for a private owner/ company. I get paid a monthly base amount which is right about what a FO at a good paying Regional makes in their third or fourth year. I also get a per diem for each day I fly. Not bad for what is a lame duck position where I can not log any time as this is a Part 91 operation where I only exist for an added level of safety.

Now the actual reason I am here is in 4-6 months I am told the owner will purchase a larger aircraft. The C510 Mustang is just not the right plane to be flying 1,000 to 1,400 NM trips. We average 2-3 days per week with 2 nights out of base. We fly the USA, Canada, and Mexico. We are slow, close to max weight, and at the mercy of the winds. Winds determine if we need a quick turn stop on the longer trips. Plus seats are a factor. On some flights the owner likes to bring his closest 4-5 friends which means I get left behind or airlined home due to lack of seats or too much weight.

The Captain of this single PIC flight department is a great guy. He has taught me all FO duties (preflight, call-outs, performance calcs, etc), how to use some great flight planning technology on the iPad, how to handle the international stuff, and CRM. I am also learning Spanish with Rosetta Stone for our Mexico trips as that was encouraged. And while the Captain is not a CFI or MEI, he is an ATP. So he is now going to endorse me for my SIC in the Mustang once we finish up all the required elements. The SIC will not do me any good since we only fly Part 91, but it shows commitment on his part and the companies part to invest in their current/ future FO.

The owner is also a great guy too for valuing a two pilot crew, paying a reasonable salary, and thinking ahead as it's clear this aircraft is a valuable business tool for him. It's his first aircraft and experience with aviation. He seems to be enjoying it. The owner even may look into becoming a private pilot himself (glad I am a CFI since I can help him there).

The risk is I get nothing out of this experience. If the owner's plans change I come out with nothing to show for my learning experience other than adding Spanish to my resume along with an 8710 for SIC in a C510 with no logged hours.

The reward is that if all goes well there is a Beechjet or large Citation F.O. position my near future. Oh, plus this is the best job ever even though it adds no value to my logbook at the moment. I am enjoying ever minute of this job. I am really learning a lot as well. Fingers crossed we get that new aircraft soon. I love my job!
 
Enjoy - sounds like good experience combined with a paycheck. Can't argue with that.

As a side note, do keep track of the hours you fly in the Mustang. While it may not be legitimate logbook time, there isn't any reason you can't use that experience as a resume enhancer as long as you're fully upfront about it.
 
I believe you can still log the time as total time (and possibly jet time), just not PIC or SIC and it cannot be used towards a rating, but there is nothing illegal about logging the time. Like Steve said, just be upfront about it at any interview or any time it is questioned. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I can make your boss one helluva deal on a Westwind :)

Alex.
 
Congrats, sounds like you landed right side up (for once :D ).

Just as an aside, 1400 miles with 5-7 people...a Beechjet ain't gonna do it. Great airplane in a lot of ways and cheap to buy but near max range you're looking at two people and bags. The Nextant might be worth looking in to...

PS. I wouldn't be caught dead in a canoe...
 
I debated writing this for a few weeks. It's not really an announcement for me sine I don't have much to show yet as I can not log any time in this job. I just keep reading on here how companies expect F.O.s and pilots young in experience to work for poverty wages. Young pilots driven by gaining flight hours but forgetting to enjoy the ride. And also companies that treat their young pilots terrible. So I thought it would be worth the write up on here to show an example of a great company with a great aircraft owner and PIC at the helm.

For the last month I been working on a contract position flying as a F.O. on a C510 for a private owner/ company. I get paid a monthly base amount which is right about what a FO at a good paying Regional makes in their third or fourth year. I also get a per diem for each day I fly. Not bad for what is a lame duck position where I can not log any time as this is a Part 91 operation where I only exist for an added level of safety.

Now the actual reason I am here is in 4-6 months I am told the owner will purchase a larger aircraft. The C510 Mustang is just not the right plane to be flying 1,000 to 1,400 NM trips. We average 2-3 days per week with 2 nights out of base. We fly the USA, Canada, and Mexico. We are slow, close to max weight, and at the mercy of the winds. Winds determine if we need a quick turn stop on the longer trips. Plus seats are a factor. On some flights the owner likes to bring his closest 4-5 friends which means I get left behind or airlined home due to lack of seats or too much weight.

The Captain of this single PIC flight department is a great guy. He has taught me all FO duties (preflight, call-outs, performance calcs, etc), how to use some great flight planning technology on the iPad, how to handle the international stuff, and CRM. I am also learning Spanish with Rosetta Stone for our Mexico trips as that was encouraged. And while the Captain is not a CFI or MEI, he is an ATP. So he is now going to endorse me for my SIC in the Mustang once we finish up all the required elements. The SIC will not do me any good since we only fly Part 91, but it shows commitment on his part and the companies part to invest in their current/ future FO.

The owner is also a great guy too for valuing a two pilot crew, paying a reasonable salary, and thinking ahead as it's clear this aircraft is a valuable business tool for him. It's his first aircraft and experience with aviation. He seems to be enjoying it. The owner even may look into becoming a private pilot himself (glad I am a CFI since I can help him there).

The risk is I get nothing out of this experience. If the owner's plans change I come out with nothing to show for my learning experience other than adding Spanish to my resume along with an 8710 for SIC in a C510 with no logged hours.

The reward is that if all goes well there is a Beechjet or large Citation F.O. position my near future. Oh, plus this is the best job ever even though it adds no value to my logbook at the moment. I am enjoying ever minute of this job. I am really learning a lot as well. Fingers crossed we get that new aircraft soon. I love my job!

Why doesn't he look at a CJ3 or 4? Best value IMHO
 
Any ideas of what exactly you are looking for? Range, cabin size, equiptment, short field performance?

From what I gather, we need something that can do at least 1,600NM, seat 6 full size passengers with luggage, 2 pilots, a proper lab, and not blink an eye on making that distance with an 80 knot headwind. Equipment would be Garmin or idelaly ProLine. And short field is a plus when flying into high elevation airports in Mexico since it gives us more options, but that's a variable we can work around if need be.

Talks of a Beechjet XT and Citation IV all the way up to a Citation X are buzzing around since while we presently fly from Texas to points in Mexico and Canada mostly, I overheard Europe may also be on the horizon in the coming years. Right now though for what they do, the Beechjet XT seems ideal from all we researched.
 
Enjoy - sounds like good experience combined with a paycheck. Can't argue with that.

As a side note, do keep track of the hours you fly in the Mustang. While it may not be legitimate logbook time, there isn't any reason you can't use that experience as a resume enhancer as long as you're fully upfront about it.

Absolutely. I haven't been tracking the hours, but that is a good idea. I did add a nice blurn to the resume that says "Performing the duties of First Officer on a Cessna Citation CE510 conducting both domestic and international flight operations throughout the United States, Canada, and Mexico." So while the time never hits the logbook, I can defintiely use the experience in an interview.
 
Congrats, sounds like you landed right side up (for once :D ).

Just as an aside, 1400 miles with 5-7 people...a Beechjet ain't gonna do it. Great airplane in a lot of ways and cheap to buy but near max range you're looking at two people and bags. The Nextant might be worth looking in to...

PS. I wouldn't be caught dead in a canoe...

Ah yes. The Nextant is the Beechjet I am referring to. I think it's called a Beechjet XT as well. Has just over 2000NM IFR range if I remember correct and can do our 1600NM+ all day long with 1-5 pax. We're thinking that's the ideal bird for what we need today... it's always tricky though thinking about tomorrow since only the owner knows that true direction within the company. And it is a small company with their first aircraft, so operating expenses need to be watched as well. Would love a Lear 55, but not my ultimate decision. I'm just going to fly it with a smile :)
 
ON LOGGING THE TIME:

I understand I can pretty much document the time in my logbook simply under Total Time TurboJet. But if I apply for jobs I should leave that time out since it's not SIC or PIC or Instruction Received Time. And also leave it out on any 8710.

So while it may look good in a logbook, I won't put it in since it's not PIC, SIC, or Instruction Received. I may buy a seperate logbook or make an Excel spreadsheet to track these flights since it is good experience and then it would not muddy up my professional logbook with numbers that need backed out when applying for jobs in the future. Plus, then I will know my actual time in the aircraft performing as SIC versus just guessing. And it would not hurt to put that time on my resume as time in the airplane performing the duties of SIC and I'd have a way to at least back up that time if asked.
 
Well, the thing with the C650 is that it takes a while to get airborne, so if you're trying to get out of smaller strips on hot days way up in altitude, the 650 is going to eat much of that up. Just a heads up from a 650 guy. Excel might be a good look.
 
How many hours do you have right now? Assuming you already meet the ATP requirements, I'd go ahead and log it in your main logbook. As long as you can demonstrate 1500 'real' hours then it doesn't matter. As stated earlier, it is valid experience and as long as you are up front with it, I'd conjecture it counts for something. Are you flying legs or just pulling up the gear and talking on the radio?

Put it this way, if you were in the running with a CFI with the same number or 'real' hours as you but no right seat time, who do you think would transition better to a corporate jet?
 
How many hours do you have right now? Assuming you already meet the ATP requirements, I'd go ahead and log it in your main logbook. As long as you can demonstrate 1500 'real' hours then it doesn't matter. As stated earlier, it is valid experience and as long as you are up front with it, I'd conjecture it counts for something. Are you flying legs or just pulling up the gear and talking on the radio?

Put it this way, if you were in the running with a CFI with the same number or 'real' hours as you but no right seat time, who do you think would transition better to a corporate jet?

I am well over ATP minimums by a few hundred hours, so all good there.

Right now I am doing the preflight walk-around, filing the occassional flight plan and international paperwork, running the numbers for take-off and landing, doing call-outs on takeoff and landing, flipping switches and gear, briefing approaches, and talking on the radio. I just started to taxi the aircraft now and soon will start doing take-off and landing since I'll need to do three which I'll log for my SIC type per 61.55.

As far as flying legs, that's pretty much the autopilot since we're at FL360 to FL410 usually. So not sure how much pushing a heading and altitude bug counts as flying a leg!
 
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