The future of pilot jobs
- Thread starter JoshH
- Start date
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Awakened by a stewardess,
With Spain somewhere below.
On the threshold of adventure,
God I do love this job so.
So while I make my move
On the big board game
Up and down a Spanish highway,
Some things remain the same:
Girls meet boys
and the boys tease girls
I'm heading out this morning,
For the Far Side of the World.
Time to sing time to dance
Living out my second chance.
Cobras and sleeping bags are coiled and curled
That's the way it happens
On the Far Side of the World.
Back at home, it's afternoon
Six thousand miles away.
It will still be there when I get through
Attending this soiree
There are jobs and chores and questions
And plates I need to twirl,
But tonight I'll take my chances,
On the Far Side of the World.
J.B. circa 2001
With Spain somewhere below.
On the threshold of adventure,
God I do love this job so.
So while I make my move
On the big board game
Up and down a Spanish highway,
Some things remain the same:
Girls meet boys
and the boys tease girls
I'm heading out this morning,
For the Far Side of the World.
Time to sing time to dance
Living out my second chance.
Cobras and sleeping bags are coiled and curled
That's the way it happens
On the Far Side of the World.
Back at home, it's afternoon
Six thousand miles away.
It will still be there when I get through
Attending this soiree
There are jobs and chores and questions
And plates I need to twirl,
But tonight I'll take my chances,
On the Far Side of the World.
J.B. circa 2001
esa17
Well-Known Member
One of these days I'm buying you a beer, bravo.
Why have a pissing match on someone's thread? Can you please take it to PM a little earlier next time?
I learned from both you guys (CF and 777; hell, I even talked to 777 when he was working in the ATP pit and I was just starting at ATP PHX) on these forums:
CF - I appreciate how honest you are about the industry as you see it; I tend to be an over-optimist so you and the recommended posters in your sig line have helped keep me centered and I really appreciate it.
777 - Dude, I followed your progress through ATP, instructing at ATP and the other place (can't remember where it was), and getting hired. I was so psyched for you each step of the way and admired that you continued to have a super positive attitude despite accusations of 'punch drinking' and such.
Please guys, at some point when it's obvious that nothing constructive is going toward the thread, take it to PM to bash each other brains in there. And thanks again for all the constructive posts you guys have in the bank - this JC-er appreciates it.
I learned from both you guys (CF and 777; hell, I even talked to 777 when he was working in the ATP pit and I was just starting at ATP PHX) on these forums:
CF - I appreciate how honest you are about the industry as you see it; I tend to be an over-optimist so you and the recommended posters in your sig line have helped keep me centered and I really appreciate it.
777 - Dude, I followed your progress through ATP, instructing at ATP and the other place (can't remember where it was), and getting hired. I was so psyched for you each step of the way and admired that you continued to have a super positive attitude despite accusations of 'punch drinking' and such.
Please guys, at some point when it's obvious that nothing constructive is going toward the thread, take it to PM to bash each other brains in there. And thanks again for all the constructive posts you guys have in the bank - this JC-er appreciates it.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you that I decided a career in aviation wasn't worth it to me.
I'd have to go back to making $20K a year, and it would take me five years and an upgrade to make it back to where I am now. And in that five years, you better believe I'd be making more than I am now, so...
So I decided I can't cost justify the career. What I'll do is fly for fun, maybe eventually get my CFI and teach.
But that's as far as I'm going to go.
The airlines just aren't making it worth changing careers.
I'd have to go back to making $20K a year, and it would take me five years and an upgrade to make it back to where I am now. And in that five years, you better believe I'd be making more than I am now, so...
So I decided I can't cost justify the career. What I'll do is fly for fun, maybe eventually get my CFI and teach.
But that's as far as I'm going to go.
The airlines just aren't making it worth changing careers.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Well, the way I figure it, if I CFI at $40 an hour and bill five hours a week, I'm looking at an extra $10K for the year.
It's not enough to pay the bills but it'll pay for a nice vacation or two!
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Yo check the cool wax.
A lot of you cats that are saying things like, "Screw the cube! Ima fly for a living!"? Well, I've got bad news for you. I used to work in a cube in college, did IT stuff. Heck if I didn't want to hang myself when I was doing it I could probably make some decent coin with it. But anyways, did the cube for 3 years while going to school and ya know what?
Airplane cockpits are just cubes that move.
Sure the work from the moving cube doesn't come home with you at night, but the discussions with your significant other about...
-How you have a very realistic shot at losing your job.
-How every other regional has stopped hiring.
-How going back to the freight company is probably a bad move.
-How flight instructing doesn't provide insurance.
-Why you can't buy a house.
-Why you probably want to hold off on kids for another 5-10 years.
-And how even if you COULD get another job flying airplanes, you'd take a pay cut to do so and have an even crappier commute.
Those things? Those things come home with you.
Now somebody is going to have a response for every single one of those points I just listed, and point out how I should man up and sleep in the bed I made and blah blah blah. That's all well and good, but you're not me, you're not living my life, you don't have my responsibility's, aspirations or relationships to deal with.
And this is where Marcus is losing this fight, because he can't empathize with folks other than himself. He doesn't realize how bad things can get, and he doesn't realize that some of us CAN'T simply pick up and move because we have people in our lives we're attached to, for better or worse, who can't simply pick up and move. I mean honestly? In a perfect world I'd quit working at my current company, go to Pinnacle, move to Kalamazoo and drive to work. You know how freakin' awesome that would be? Screw the low pay, I could move back to a city I love to hang out in, with all my buddies from college and eat B-Dubs on Stadium while washing it down with a Bell's Oberon! You can't beat that!
But it's not going to happen for me either.
Further, some guys on here are talking like if you get your degree and 1,000 TPIC that Southwest will come knocking down your door! I've got bad news for ya'll, and some folks probably don't want to hear this but I've understood it to be true as long as I can remember pursuing this career:
You will probably never "make it" to the mainline carriers.
Even if you do? Your chances of survival are still slim. What happens if you got hired at Northwest and then you get furloughed because you now work for the NorthWidget? Or what about if you got hired at Braniff? How about Eastern? Pan Am anybody? Who remembers Republic, the REAL Republic? How about the real Piedmont?
A show of hands? Anybody?
Those guys "made it," only to have everything taken away from them.
Now to that I will say, for what? To fly shiny airplanes? To have cool overnights? To spend half the month away from your family? I dunno guys, it seems like a lot to give up, for a long time, just to have "a cool job the pays well." A job that pays so well in fact, that you need to save half of what you make to insulate yourself against losing your job, which will very realistically happen to you at some point in your career.
I dunno about the rest of ya'll, but as I get older my priorities shift from career to family. The further I get into this career, which albeit has been a very short time, the less I'm willing to sacrifice for this job. This isn't a dream to me anymore, it's a means to an end.
Maybe I'm one of the folks that isn't cut out for this job, but you wouldn't have thought that a few years ago. Heck I was more spunky than Marcus and itching to start flying for a living. But a lot of things have happened and changed in the last few years, and the more I look up towards the top of this industry, I start to wonder if the pay out is worth it, the sacrifice in my health is worth it, the time away from home is worth it, and whether the lack of stability is worth it.
I've got my answers, but don't discredit somebody just because they are not telling you what you want to hear. Doug's right, this job is a journey, and it has it's ups and downs. You've got to decide for yourself whether the ups and downs are worth it, and don't be surprised if you change your mind halfway through this gig.
A lot of you cats that are saying things like, "Screw the cube! Ima fly for a living!"? Well, I've got bad news for you. I used to work in a cube in college, did IT stuff. Heck if I didn't want to hang myself when I was doing it I could probably make some decent coin with it. But anyways, did the cube for 3 years while going to school and ya know what?
Airplane cockpits are just cubes that move.
Sure the work from the moving cube doesn't come home with you at night, but the discussions with your significant other about...
-How you have a very realistic shot at losing your job.
-How every other regional has stopped hiring.
-How going back to the freight company is probably a bad move.
-How flight instructing doesn't provide insurance.
-Why you can't buy a house.
-Why you probably want to hold off on kids for another 5-10 years.
-And how even if you COULD get another job flying airplanes, you'd take a pay cut to do so and have an even crappier commute.
Those things? Those things come home with you.
Now somebody is going to have a response for every single one of those points I just listed, and point out how I should man up and sleep in the bed I made and blah blah blah. That's all well and good, but you're not me, you're not living my life, you don't have my responsibility's, aspirations or relationships to deal with.
And this is where Marcus is losing this fight, because he can't empathize with folks other than himself. He doesn't realize how bad things can get, and he doesn't realize that some of us CAN'T simply pick up and move because we have people in our lives we're attached to, for better or worse, who can't simply pick up and move. I mean honestly? In a perfect world I'd quit working at my current company, go to Pinnacle, move to Kalamazoo and drive to work. You know how freakin' awesome that would be? Screw the low pay, I could move back to a city I love to hang out in, with all my buddies from college and eat B-Dubs on Stadium while washing it down with a Bell's Oberon! You can't beat that!
But it's not going to happen for me either.
Further, some guys on here are talking like if you get your degree and 1,000 TPIC that Southwest will come knocking down your door! I've got bad news for ya'll, and some folks probably don't want to hear this but I've understood it to be true as long as I can remember pursuing this career:
You will probably never "make it" to the mainline carriers.
Even if you do? Your chances of survival are still slim. What happens if you got hired at Northwest and then you get furloughed because you now work for the NorthWidget? Or what about if you got hired at Braniff? How about Eastern? Pan Am anybody? Who remembers Republic, the REAL Republic? How about the real Piedmont?
A show of hands? Anybody?
Those guys "made it," only to have everything taken away from them.
Now to that I will say, for what? To fly shiny airplanes? To have cool overnights? To spend half the month away from your family? I dunno guys, it seems like a lot to give up, for a long time, just to have "a cool job the pays well." A job that pays so well in fact, that you need to save half of what you make to insulate yourself against losing your job, which will very realistically happen to you at some point in your career.
I dunno about the rest of ya'll, but as I get older my priorities shift from career to family. The further I get into this career, which albeit has been a very short time, the less I'm willing to sacrifice for this job. This isn't a dream to me anymore, it's a means to an end.
Maybe I'm one of the folks that isn't cut out for this job, but you wouldn't have thought that a few years ago. Heck I was more spunky than Marcus and itching to start flying for a living. But a lot of things have happened and changed in the last few years, and the more I look up towards the top of this industry, I start to wonder if the pay out is worth it, the sacrifice in my health is worth it, the time away from home is worth it, and whether the lack of stability is worth it.
I've got my answers, but don't discredit somebody just because they are not telling you what you want to hear. Doug's right, this job is a journey, and it has it's ups and downs. You've got to decide for yourself whether the ups and downs are worth it, and don't be surprised if you change your mind halfway through this gig.
Chet Kelly
New Member
I'm not a big fan of borrowing money - especially if the words "borrow" and "aviation" are used in the same sentence. So my overall opinion is this: NO, I would not borrow money for flight training.
Here is another perspective as to how to look at the situation: would you (anyone) be willing to borrow $70K and invest it in airline stocks with the hopes of achieving a major return on investment?
Chet Kelly
New Member
Not to sound arrogant, but sitting in an MD-11 for 10 hours isn't exactly excitement central either - and that pay is well over 100K/yr. Other than taking off and landing you are nothing more than a systems manager - i.e., you type more than you fly.
OnTheFly7
Well-Known Member
Dayumn....................all because of a woman.................what a shame!
You make some very valid points. Most individuals priorities change as they mature. However, life is what you make of it. Some will be happy in the choosen career field and some won't. Some will never be happy!
The real trick to life, be happy with where you are and what you have because there are others out there who would life to be in your shoes.
To quote from ...............................Hell I can't remember, but I like it so here you go:
"You may not be be where you want or thought you would be in life, but rest assured, you are exactly where you are meant to be"
Still trying to figure it out myself!
Chet Kelly
New Member
Long live Herman the Duck!!
Hootie
Old Skool
In your signature you really need to clarify that you live with your parents, you drive a kia, and you eat ramen and pb&j three times a day 365 days a year.
For the original question, there is no pilot shortage and there never will be.
Hootie
Old Skool
Where? Anything in Europe?
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Some jobs require heavy time, some jobs require alot less.....I didn't go thru and pick out specifics, because it's 1230 am here, and I'm tired. This was the result of just 2 minutes of searching. No job is perfect, but there are leads here.
http://www.avcrew.com/jobs/main.php
http://www.climbto350.com/climbto350_aviation_jobs_board.cfm
http://www.rishworth.co.nz/opportunities/oppslist.asp?cat=1
http://www.parcaviation.aero/aviation/FlightcrewJobs.asp
http://www.hawaiiaviation.com/positions.htm
intern_mike
E-175 f/o
Hello intern_mike it appears that you have not posted on our forums in approximately a month, why not take a few moments to ask a question, help provide a solution or just engage in a conversation with another member in any one of our forums?
This message comes up for me every time I visit this forum. I've given up on jetcareers because I get very little insight other than an individual's personal experiences and opinions. Most of the time it's just pointless bickering/rants. I find I have not learned anything and come away feeling pessimistic about the industry. If I based my decision to pursue a career in aviation off of jetcareers, I'd be in law school as we speak. I realize that everyone's situation is unique, so they should be taken with a grain of salt, but I just don't have enough salt. Bottom line is that I'm doing what I want. I'm doing it my way, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
To the original poster of this thread, there is only one certainty about the future of the industry, and that's that it will be here for a long time. And that is enough, at least for me, to make it work and be a part of it.
This message comes up for me every time I visit this forum. I've given up on jetcareers because I get very little insight other than an individual's personal experiences and opinions. Most of the time it's just pointless bickering/rants. I find I have not learned anything and come away feeling pessimistic about the industry. If I based my decision to pursue a career in aviation off of jetcareers, I'd be in law school as we speak. I realize that everyone's situation is unique, so they should be taken with a grain of salt, but I just don't have enough salt. Bottom line is that I'm doing what I want. I'm doing it my way, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
To the original poster of this thread, there is only one certainty about the future of the industry, and that's that it will be here for a long time. And that is enough, at least for me, to make it work and be a part of it.
BillH
New Member
I became a pilot because I love it, theres nothing else I'd rather be doing for a job. Simple as that. If you have trouble deciding that this is what you want to do, well I'd say you simply don't like it enough. A pilot has a strong conviction in his heart that the cockpit is where he wants to be.
Now the career path I will take, it will be what ever seams the most fun to do. Right now I am thinking Air Interdiction Officer for the Border Patrol, or a South American airline, I gotta go where the Colombian babes are... Still need to learn Spanish first which is no problem for the fact I am living and flight instructing in Miami.
Now just so you know, when I started with ATP, my plans were to go straight to a regional, and stay far away from Miami. You simply have no friggen idea where you will end up or how your thought process will change until after you dive head first into this industry and submerge yourself into it. Keep an open mind, be thankful for what you have, and look at the future as things develop because you really do have no way of knowing what it will be like down the road or what your own feelings will be. Some people flight instruct, build up 1000 hours then leave aviation forever. Only you will know what is best for you. So do you want to be a pilot or not? Yes? Do it! Not sure? Not sure???? Your not a pilot. Move along, nothing to see here.
Now the career path I will take, it will be what ever seams the most fun to do. Right now I am thinking Air Interdiction Officer for the Border Patrol, or a South American airline, I gotta go where the Colombian babes are... Still need to learn Spanish first which is no problem for the fact I am living and flight instructing in Miami.
Now just so you know, when I started with ATP, my plans were to go straight to a regional, and stay far away from Miami. You simply have no friggen idea where you will end up or how your thought process will change until after you dive head first into this industry and submerge yourself into it. Keep an open mind, be thankful for what you have, and look at the future as things develop because you really do have no way of knowing what it will be like down the road or what your own feelings will be. Some people flight instruct, build up 1000 hours then leave aviation forever. Only you will know what is best for you. So do you want to be a pilot or not? Yes? Do it! Not sure? Not sure???? Your not a pilot. Move along, nothing to see here.
SIUav8er
Narcosis
Im not trying to get involved with this argument, but what exactly do you do Chris? Are you flying for a Regional?
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Yes he does. Through his best efforts to keep the name of said company silent, I'm sure you could figure it out if you just spent a few moments looking through some recent postings.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
:yup::yup::yup::yup::yup:Hahahahahahaha, whew, that was a good one. Nice personal attack jab, but sorry, couldn't be further from the truth. You can keep trying though, I don't care what you think, thats between you and your self-esteem.
In conclusion, the future of pilot jobs is solid. I think the way the airlines do business in the US will drastically change but everything's gunna be alright.