The future of pilot jobs

[Trip7]

I didn't say you were the only one who can change it, but if you actually gave a damn, you could be part of the process to try and fix it. But you're too self-centered to care about anyone else, judging from your posts. You definitely strike me as someone who'd take a paycut to fly a bigger airplane, which is what got us into this mess in the first place.

Whatever

Let's draw comparisons, shall we? The learning of the playbook and the training camps are the same as indoc and systems. Pre-season is the sims. Then you sit on the sidelines while the older guys go at it until next season (recurrent) and by then, maybe you get a few starts. You're not getting paid for what you were hired to do. You're getting paid to sit on the sidelines and maybe take a few snaps in garbage time.

Have you ever played competitive football at ANY level? Have you heard of practice? Meetings? Film study? How bout go to an NFL game and watch the backup QB the whole game and tell me that's not working. I would be pissed to be a backup QB because you have to do the SAME work as the starter but you don't get to play except in the case of an injury.

That's fine. What are your times again? Good luck if you get furloughed!

I'll deal with that if it comes. Already got a backup plan.

That is, IF you can get beyond YOURSELF enough to maintain a marriage.

Once again, whatever

Wow, you're the new aloft!!!

Yes, im heading to GoJet

Wasn't too long ago your posts were singing a different tune.

 

[Trip7]

Oh by the way, can someone please tell me who's post this was, cuz it just slipped my mind....

Quit whining! (irony alert) So I'm whining about whining, so be it.

Airline people need to quit whining. Quite a few gripes I hear (from regional pilots) frequently are very controllable issues.

1) "I live in XXX and my commute to YYY sucks!"
- You applied at an airline and opted not to move to where work is. You should be happy that's even an option. Living in Phoenix, if I got a job with Boston Approach, I'd be packing up the van and driving cross country. On top of this, you KNEW where the bases were before you applied. If you had no desire ultimately to end up in one of those places, why work for that particular airline?

2) "But ZZZ was the only regional that would hire me"
- Just because an airline will hire you doesn't mean you should work for them. McDonald's would've hired me when I was in college, but it wasn't the type of job I wanted. So I went a few more months without a job (took the financial hit) and then eventually got a "better" job.

3) "But seniority is everything!!!"
- There is no dearth of flying jobs. I'd venture to say a bulk of the "professional" ones pay better than year one at a "regional". In fact, once you factor in shorter training times, quicker upgrade, and the like, the 135 world may be, in fact, the "short route"... as long as you stick it out. Added benefits of living where you want (see #1) and being home every night and you're way ahead of the regional guys

4) "But they closed the AAA domicile and now I have to commute to BBB!"
- This happens in the real world too. Engineer friends I have got sent a letter just yesterday that they can either move to BBB or lose their job. Be glad that the airline didn't do that to you. Granted, this sucks to be a part of, but it's the nature of the beast, and it's not something limited to the airline biz.

5) "But I could only upgrade in DDD, it'd take me another X months/years to upgrade in my home, CCC"
- Happens in plenty of other businesses too. Another friend of mine might have to move to Cleveland (yuck!) in order to move upward within his company. I haven't heard him complaining about the move at all. At least in this industry you're able to fly as far as you want on someone else's dime.

The fact of the matter is that 4 of the 5 above are conscious decisions made by an individual. Why is there so much whining if you're doing what you decided to do?! You made your bed, now sleep in it. You reap what you sow. etc etc etc etc.

/end rant



CHECKMATE!

 

[derg]

Alright folks, drink a beer, cool down.

(now watch, people won't heed my polite request, ratchet it up a couple levels, receive an infraction and then complain about moderation. I'd even put $10 on it to make it 'interesting' )

 

[surreal1221]

The future of pilot jobs?

Not enough to go around

 

[frequentflya]

To hell with all you naysayers. I'd rather do something I love than sit in an office all of my life, never seeing anything except the house, the car, and work.

 

[X-Forces]

 

[Trip7]

To hell with all you naysayers. I'd rather do something I love than sit in an office all of my life, never seeing anything except the house, the car, and work.

:yeahthat: Another high five. Thats why I must post in response to some of these ridiculous whining posts. I don't want aspiring pilots to see a career of doom and gloom. While many say there's no way to make it work I say to hell with that, there is a way to make it work and I will make it work because there's nothing else I'd rather be doing. If I can do it you can do it too. If Doug can do it you can do it. If Calcapt can do it you can do. They'll all tell you its not going to be a smooth climb to the top unless you're lucky. But if you want to survive you'll survive. Always keep you head up, always have a backup plan. And use all available resources in this career. You need to know what you're doing. Plan accordingly and you should have no regrets, and less whining

 

[derg]

Here's todays moment of zen.

Actually, I've been reading some Eastern philosophy and I came across this which really serves as a good lesson:

Our life is an endless journey. It is like a broad highway that extends infinitely into the distance. The practice of meditation provides a vehicle to travel on that road. Our journey consists of constant ups and downs, hope and fear, but it is a good journey.

The practice of meditation allows us to experience all the textures of the roadway, which is what the journey is all about. We begin to find that within ourselves there is no fundamental complaint about anything or anyone at all.

From "Ocean of Dharma" by Chogyam Trungpa.

Not that I'm Buddhist, which I'm not but that's kind of the way I see the career path. Ups and downs, but without the 'downs' you really can't enjoy (or even recognize) the 'ups'. By all means, do what you want, it's not all white roses and champagne but it certainly isn't all gloom 'n doom with gnashing of teeth.

I implore people to look back over the past maybe seven years of posts on the forum and you'll see the aftermath of 9/11, then the major airline "bankruptopalooza", a slight rebirth of the industry and then the "OMG, it's the end of the regional world" today. I surely hope I had enough foresight not to have erased too much in order to conserve server space.

 

[Milesar]

Alright folks, drink a beer, cool down.

...cant, he's on reserve.

(anddd so am I, so I just stare at my avatar all day)

 

[derg]

...cant, he's on reserve.

(anddd so am I, so I just stare at my avatar all day)

Short call or long call?

 

[Trip7]

...cant, he's on reserve.

(anddd so am I, so I just stare at my avatar all day)

:yeahthat:

 

[Sprint100]

Have you ever played competitive football at ANY level? Have you heard of practice? Meetings? Film study? How bout go to an NFL game and watch the backup QB the whole game and tell me that's not working. I would be pissed to be a backup QB because you have to do the SAME work as the starter but you don't get to play except in the case of an injury.

During games it seems like sideline admin work:laff: Not trying to start anything triple 7 that is just funny as heck when I think about it.

 

[Trip7]

During games it seems like sideline admin work:laff: Not trying to start anything triple 7 that is just funny as heck when I think about it.

Well the money makes it well worth it but I know its not easy to be a backup QB. Memorizing the playbook is already enough work.

 

[Chris_Ford]

Sorry, I spent my day at the pool.

As to your post of "checkmate" you're a complete SJS infected idiot. I'm not whining about anything. I'm just saying that given the amount of money and the amount of actual work that you do, this industry isn't worth it. You can make a lot more money, have a higher QoL and enjoy your life more if you get involved in something else.

 

[surreal1221]

To hell with all you naysayers. I'd rather do something I love than sit in an office all of my life, never seeing anything except the house, the car, and work.

That's great. . .

One rule. . .

Don't offer to do my job for lower than what I'm being paid to do it. Otherwise we'll have problems.

If you want to improve the profession, great. If you're another one of the shiny-eyed career changers (I was once one of them as well) who just wants to FLY FOR A LIVING because it's so damn cool. . .you're in for a wide awakening.

 

[Trip7]

Sorry, I spent my day at the pool.

As to your post of "checkmate" you're a complete SJS infected idiot. I'm not whining about anything. I'm just saying that given the amount of money and the amount of actual work that you do, this industry isn't worth it. You can make a lot more money, have a higher QoL and enjoy your life more if you get involved in something else.

SJS? I fly a turboprop.

You're not whining?

1) I'm not engaged
2) I'd be saying this regardless of what my situation is in the industry.

Look, when you're playing Flight Sim this seems like a really cool job. And it is. Everything you do below 10,000 is reasonably fun. It's the BS outside of the job. The reduced rest overnights, the working on Thanksgiving and Christmas. The fact that my W2 last year was around $20,000, about $7 less than I paid in TAXES the previous year. The fact that you have to take a paycut to go anywhere, and there's no job security anywhere.

Go be an accountant and buy a kickass 310 and fly somewhere on the weekends

Uhh...yeah you are. Did you not know about any of the above before you entered the industry? Why now do you realize that you should've redid things so you can be "where your 100k cousin is"?

You're whining about the industry, you're constantly whining about JC moderation, you're constantly whining that JC is a CFI board, you're just a whiner CF. When things don't go your way you back into the corner and whine.

Meredith Vieira: "Let me get this straight. You have $100,000, and you're thinking about answering a question you have no idea what the answer is?"
(Audience applause)
Chris: "Ahhhh, but I want to win a million!" (whine alert)
Meredith: "Chris, grow up!" (smart woman)
Chris (after some thought): "Ah, what the hell, I'll walk." (i suggest ya do the same if ya don't like the industry or JC)

 

[surreal1221]

Chris, did Meredith REALLY tell you to grow up?

Ah hell dude. . .I would have smacked her so quick and so hard. . .what a witch.

 

[derg]

Chilll melllow.... mellow.... Don't make me start dropping quotes of Dharma again!

 

[DE727UPS]

I'm glad we didn't have the internet when I was getting started. Gawd knows where I'd be if I'd seen some of this nay saying back in the late 70's/early 80's.

In short, if you want to be a pilot, the present state of the biz is no reason to walk away. Aviation has always been cyclical and trends with the economy. As long as there are planes, there will be a need for folks to fly them. Not everyone is cut out for the job and those who aren't get "weeded out" by the process. There are sacrifices, but there can be great rewards. Personally, I'm dong quite well (I'd get flammed for saying how well), and can't bring myself to discourage folks from entering the career in spite of the current state of the industry.

Why?

I've seen this before. For perspectives sake, when I got out of Riddle I couldn't get a CFI job in spite of four interviews and a six months of trying. I finally bought a Cessna 150 and free-lanced. I had 2000 total and couldn't get a 135 freight job, only had 50 multi. And, back in those days, you needed 500 multi to get on with a commuter (regional).

My point? The career has seen worse than this. And many have fallen by the wayside. But those that stuck it out are the Boeing Capts of today. Maybe it isn' the job it used to be, but I think it's still worth shooting for in the overall scheme of things. Especially if being a pilot is your goal.

Don't get into the biz for the money. Get into it because you love aviation. Without the love, you'll burn out quickly and be another whiner.

 

[Michael95U]

I'm glad we didn't have the internet when I was getting started. Gawd knows where I'd be if I'd seen some of this nay saying back in the late 70's/early 80's.

In short, if you want to be a pilot, the present state of the biz is no reason to walk away. Aviation has always been cyclical and trends with the economy. As long as there are planes, there will be a need for folks to fly them. Not everyone is cut out for the job and those who aren't get "weeded out" by the process. There are sacrifices, but there can be great rewards. Personally, I'm dong quite well (I'd get flammed for saying how well), and can't bring myself to discourage folks from entering the career in spite of the current state of the industry.

Why?

I've seen this before. For perspectives sake, when I got out of Riddle I couldn't get a CFI job in spite of four interviews and a six months of trying. I finally bought a Cessna 150 and free-lanced. I had 2000 total and couldn't get a 135 freight job, only had 50 multi. And, back in those days, you needed 500 multi to get on with a commuter (regional).

My point? The career has seen worse than this. And many have fallen by the wayside. But those that stuck it out are the Boeing Capts of today. Maybe it isn' the job it used to be, but I think it's still worth shooting for in the overall scheme of things. Especially if being a pilot is your goal.

Don't get into the biz for the money. Get into it because you love aviation. Without the love, you'll burn out quickly and be another whiner.

Well said.