The Attack on the 2nd Amendment Continues

mshunter said:
Are you blind, stupid, or dumb?
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No. Are you?

Tell me the FBI doesn't have a probe, with them setting goals of tens of thousands of emails to be looked at every month. Then tell me when/if they do find classified emails, that there will be no accountability for BREAKING THE LAW.
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Any probe isn't going to go anywhere. I guarantee she isn't the only politician with private email servers.

By her own admission, she knew she shouldn't have done it.
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So she admitted she made a mistake.

BTW, Politifact is a freaking Democratic rag.
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Is it?

I'm out. It's like trying to have a rational conversation with my 4 year old.
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You voting for Trump?
 
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TheFlyingTurkey said:
Seggy has a wet spot and needs to change his underwear, he can have his little victory. For now.

For the rest of us...
I'm glad the hostages have been released. (On a side note, why does Iran keep capturing hostages? Something to ponder.) I'm glad they are free. Diplomacy has worked, as it did when Iran captured our sailors a few days ago. (Iran captured Americans, again?) But I'm afraid the Iran nuclear deal (if that is why these hostages were released) is just a temporary victory. A few things here.

1. Iran must actually stick to the agreement. And they have already broken the agreement by firing missiles near our ships.
2. What makes you think Iran will actually stick to the agreement?
3. This agreement only delays Iran from developing a nuclear weapon, it does not prevent them from developing one.
4. Basically Obama has a victory, not the United States. He has kicked the can down the road for 10 years so that he looks good, but some other poor schmuck is going to have to deal with it in the future.
5. We'll be right here in 10 years. Iran will have their 22,000 centrifuges up and running, and they'll have a nuke weapon ready 3 months after that. Actually they'll have 8-10 weapons ready.
6. So we all have 10 years to start digging our 1950's style nuclear bomb shelters.

In 10 years my twin boys will be 17 years old. I've got 10 years to save up enough college tuition so they don't get drafted, because we will have to go to war with Iran to stop their nuclear program. (Really, what middle class person can actually afford to save up enough college tuition for 2 kids let alone one?) I am scared to death of the future President Obama has delivered us.
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:tinfoil:
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
I'm sure they did.
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No, they really didn't.

The open carry activists wanted to make it allowable for them to carry their guns in what they thought would be more places. It had the opposite effect.

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a38867/open-carry-texas/

Generally open carry isn't so much about actually strapping a gun on, it prevents issues if you have a gun concealed and it becomes exposed. Say I had one in my waistband holster and bent over to pick up an item. If my shirt inadvertently shifted and the weapon was exposed some states would hang you off a wall. Similarly if I was going to stow it in my car while I went into a bar for lunch and somebody saw- that could be brandishing etc.

Most people who want to carry, conceal it.
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Nice stories, but not sure what your point is.

Looks like in practice concealed carry is being hurt because of the open carry laws.

I would expect there to be a bit of back and forth over open carry initially. A few more people will Carry exposed, and now that shops are aware they may post signs.. Over time people will probably stop carrying open, and signs will be forgotten
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Signs will be forgotten by who?
 
Seggy said:
No, they really didn't.

The open carry activists wanted to make it allowable for them to carry their guns in what they thought would be more places. It had the opposite effect.

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a38867/open-carry-texas/



Nice stories, but not sure what your point is.

Looks like in practice concealed carry is being hurt because of the open carry laws.



Signs will be forgotten by who?
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Did you bother to read the story you posted?

Open carry doesn't allow guns in any more places than concealed carry does.

Clearly one of us understands, and has worked within and lives by current gun laws, another one of us has never really been exposed to them, taken classes that cover them, or lived with them.

Signs eventually come down as the hype dies off. Businesses generally don't like to post anti gun messages on the front door.

Heck, the last several Starbucks I've been in no longer have the no gun sign.

What stories? States where concealed carry is allowed, but open carry is not usually have relatively strict laws against brandishing. Brandishing is a lose term, and people have gotten in serious trouble for this as small as a shirt uncovering a legally concealed weapon.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
Did you bother to read the story you posted?
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Yes

Open carry doesn't allow guns in any more places than concealed carry does.
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Still missing the point. In the places I go to a lot, more signs have popped up banning open and concealed carry. Hence, the open carry is hurting the concealed carry environment.

Clearly one of us understands, and has worked within and lives by current gun laws, another one of us has never really been exposed to them, taken classes that cover them, or lived with them.
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Making assumptions that are wrong.

Signs eventually come down as the hype dies off. Businesses generally don't like to post anti gun messages on the front door.
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More assumptions

Heck, the last several Starbucks I've been in no longer have the no gun sign.
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More signs have gone up here.

What stories? States where concealed carry is allowed, but open carry is not usually have relatively strict laws against brandishing. Brandishing is a lose term, and people have gotten in serious trouble for this as small as a shirt uncovering a legally concealed weapon.
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The stories you told.
 
Seggy said:
Yes



Still missing the point. In the places I go to a lot, more signs have popped up banning open and concealed carry. Hence, the open carry is hurting the concealed carry environment.



Making assumptions that are wrong.



More assumptions



More signs have gone up here.



The stories you told.
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^ nothing of any substance posted.

Yawn.

If your well versed,

1) what states reciprocate with Texas?

2) what states does Texas recognize

3) what are the training requirements for concealed carry

4) what establishes minimum requirements, who authorizes the instructors?

5) where by federal law are you not allowed to carry?

6) what does Texas preemptive law mean?

7) who regulates interstate travel with weapons?

8) as an out of state resident may I buy a gun in Texas?

9) If I am driving through Texas with a Thompson machine gun in my trunk am I breaking any Texas laws?

10) if I fill out a 5320.1 what am I doing?

11) on an DA trigger is the first or second pull heavier?

12) what is a BCG?

13) why are ammunition manufactures moving to non Pb cores?

14) what's a bullet button? Why did California get beat by it?

15) what does the current background check look for?

16) what precludes you from owning a fire arm?

17) what caused the national firearms act - and did it work?

18) what constitutes a select fire weapon?

Go ahead- impress me with your firearms knowledge.
 
I mean...I don't agree with a lot of the President's policies, but can't we all be freaking glad that the Iranians are coming to the table and we're ending decades of asinine policy of "well if we treat them like garbage long enough maybe they'll acquiesce to our demands?" This is an objectively good thing. What do you think would have happened to our sailors in 1984?
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
^ nothing of any substance posted.

Yawn.

If your well versed,

1) what states reciprocate with Texas?

2) what states does Texas recognize

3) what are the training requirements for concealed carry

4) what establishes minimum requirements, who authorizes the instructors?

5) where by federal law are you not allowed to carry?

6) what does Texas preemptive law mean?

7) who regulates interstate travel with weapons?

8) as an out of state resident may I buy a gun in Texas?

9) If I am driving through Texas with a Thompson machine gun in my trunk am I breaking any Texas laws?

10) if I fill out a 5320.1 what am I doing?

11) on an DA trigger is the first or second pull heavier?

12) what is a BCG?

13) why are ammunition manufactures moving to non Pb cores?

14) what's a bullet button? Why did California get beat by it?

15) what does the current background check look for?

16) what precludes you from owning a fire arm?

17) what caused the national firearms act - and did it work?

18) what constitutes a select fire weapon?

Go ahead- impress me with your firearms knowledge.
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Stick with the facts.

The open carry isn't working out like was expected. Private businesses simply don't trust gun owners to make the right decisions.
 
TheFlyingTurkey said:
Seggy has a wet spot and needs to change his underwear, he can have his little victory. For now.

For the rest of us...
I'm glad the hostages have been released. (On a side note, why does Iran keep capturing hostages? Something to ponder.) I'm glad they are free. Diplomacy has worked, as it did when Iran captured our sailors a few days ago. (Iran captured Americans, again?) But I'm afraid the Iran nuclear deal (if that is why these hostages were released) is just a temporary victory. A few things here.
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Ok, I think things have been going down the wrong path for a while in this country and I'm not exactly the president's cheerleader, but it's important that we address these talking points because they are factually incorrect or simply misleading.

1. Iran must actually stick to the agreement. And they have already broken the agreement by firing missiles near our ships.
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So what, we do that stuff all the time. I'd probably be trying to look like a badass if I was Iran too - they know they're outgunned in the region, but they still have to show other local nations that they have "the biggest dick." These displays are not aimed at us. It's basically saving face. Let the Ayatollah have it, it's not really that big of a deal.

2. What makes you think Iran will actually stick to the agreement?
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We shall see if they stick to the "intent" of the deal. If they don't, then F-em, but for now, be excited that there's actually some positive diplomacy going on. Diplomacy is a good thing. It's important that nations talk to one another in peace rather than pick up the pieces.

3. This agreement only delays Iran from developing a nuclear weapon, it does not prevent them from developing one.
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Meh. We shall see. Also, who the hell cares if the Iranians have a nuke? To be honest, they'd be crazy not to be trying to get one, look at all the "regime change" that has happened in recent years over there. Iran isn't stupid, it's a deterrent in their eyes, and likely not a bad idea for them.

4. Basically Obama has a victory, not the United States. He has kicked the can down the road for 10 years so that he looks good, but some other poor schmuck is going to have to deal with it in the future.
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Anytime two nations sit down and start talking through their disagreements instead of killing one another's citizens it's a victory for all of mankind. I'd much rather we did this than carpet bomb Tehran.

5. We'll be right here in 10 years. Iran will have their 22,000 centrifuges up and running, and they'll have a nuke weapon ready 3 months after that. Actually they'll have 8-10 weapons ready.
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So what? If you think that Iran is just going to give nuclear weapons to terrorists to deploy, you are a fool. They have to stay in power, and if that happened, we'd annihilate them. Period. MAD is alive in well - the only thing them having nukes does is prevent us from "Iraq-ing" them - which is honestly probably a good thing, at least the general population of Iran is more or less pro-Western even if the powers that be are not.

6. So we all have 10 years to start digging our 1950's style nuclear bomb shelters.
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Bro, do you even physics? The Iranians cannot deliver a weapon to the CONUS. Hell, they couldn't deliver a weapon to Alaska or Hawaii. Do you understand the kind of distances and velocities involved in deliver and nuclear weapon that far? Not only that, but these people aren't idiots. There is no Iran if a missile even launches. Man I live on Kauai, we're testing ground based interceptors all the time out here - you think that Iran has a hope of delivering a nuclear payload to America in ten years unmolested while we're dumping billions into building machines and technologies to shoot down these sorts of threats? Not going to happen. Iran is glass moments after the missile leaves the pad. The Ayatollah is the "old guard" now - they're not stupid, they're not going to do something that jeopardizes the powerstructures they're at the top of.

In 10 years my twin boys will be 17 years old. I've got 10 years to save up enough college tuition so they don't get drafted, because we will have to go to war with Iran to stop their nuclear program. (Really, what middle class person can actually afford to save up enough college tuition for 2 kids let alone one?) I am scared to death of the future President Obama has delivered us.
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I can't really disagree with the direction the country is headed in financially. College tuition is one of many problems, but I don't think you have to worry about the boys being drafted. I have nothing to back that up, but I'm not worried about it, and I have 2 kids and a kid on the way.
 
Raar raar raar we need more gun laws!!! I don't know what gun laws we have but we need more! Let's get some more fetzner valves while we're at it, who the hell knows what they do, but we need more!!
 
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