TEB crash 5/15/17

Bear said:
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Seems to me like a late/low altitude/tight turn from the 06 approach started a fateful chain. the location of the crash shows the Lear through the centerline of 01; meaning he most likely was pushed through the turn by strong winds [hard to imagine that a 32 knot wind push against the tail on the inside of the turn wouldn't be a factor here]. Last second "yank" back to center line and you end up with a low altitude, low speed, accelerated stall.

But, what the heck do I know, I'm 1,000+ miles away!

RIP!!
 
NovemberEcho said:
Apparently he was way behind for a while. He crossed DANDY at 2300'.
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Whoa that's way off. I can't believe approach wasn't all over that before he started descending. Every time I've done that approach I've always been at 2000 when intercepting the LOC. As soon as we pass VINGS we jam down to 1500 to make sure it's not even close at DANDY.
 
sweeps said:
Whoa that's way off. I can't believe approach wasn't all over that before he started descending. Every time I've done that approach I've always been at 2000 when intercepting the LOC. As soon as we pass VINGS we jam down to 1500 to make sure it's not even close at DANDY.
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Well he was at 2000' when he intercepted. So I don't know what was going on while he was on the localizer.
 
sweeps said:
Whoa that's way off. I can't believe approach wasn't all over that before he started descending. Every time I've done that approach I've always been at 2000 when intercepting the LOC. As soon as we pass VINGS we jam down to 1500 to make sure it's not even close at DANDY.
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I don't even trust VNAV to go down the 500ft. I drive and dive that one.
 
sweeps said:
That's crazy. Wonder if they hit vertical speed and spun the wrong way or VNAV got all wonky on them.
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You're severely overestimating the autopilot in the Lear 35. :-) No vertical modes are worth a damn with the autopilot on. It may or may not have had VNAV guidance (probably did), and it may or may not have had altitude preselect (probably didn't).

Not saying one way or the other if that played a role, time will tell.
 
I wouldn't be surprised to see the local procedures and serious restrictions for circling or visual sequencing maneuvers being a secondary factor to this accident, and being looked at closely with regards to safety of the restrictions for faster/larger aircraft, and what tower may be requiring of crews. Ultimately, it's up to a crew not to fly their plane into a square corner, and into the ground or anything attached to the ground, but existing procedures or restrictions that may be helping push them into those corners, should get a hard look at how much of a detriment to safety they may be.
 
It will be interesting to see what happens for sure.

For those interested, "Eddy" has a page on code7700.com about TEB ops, and has a video of this exact approach with very similar winds. He circles farther south to loop around the stadium, and it presents as a pretty routine, non-threatening landing:

http://code7700.com/kteb.htm
 
MikeD said:
I wouldn't be surprised to see the local procedures and serious restrictions for circling or visual sequencing maneuvers being a secondary factor to this accident, and being looked at closely with regards to safety of the restrictions for faster/larger aircraft, and what tower may be requiring of crews. Ultimately, it's up to a crew not to fly their plane into a square corner, and into the ground or anything attached to the ground, but existing procedures or restrictions that may be helping push them into those corners, should get a hard look at how much of a detriment to safety they may be.
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That's all well and good, but when you start your circle 4 miles late it's kind of hard to pin that on local procedures.
 
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