Talked with Gulfstream

jtrain609

jtrain609

Antisocial Monster
Heya everyone,


I didn't want to throw this to the fire in the general topics so I figured I'd post it here.

Today Western Michigan University is having a career fair. I had heard that ASA was up there doing interviews, so I figured I'd run up before work and ask them exactly what they're interviewing for and see what the outlook of the company is. Well I couldn't find ASA, but I did manage to find Gulfstream. So being the kind of dude that I am, I went up and started asking some questions. Questions that were, to put it lightly, asked in such a way as to provoke them. I well knew their position in the industry, but played dumb for a few minutes. I asked them if they were hiring Captains and they said they were hiring Captains with 3,000 hours of total time and 300 turbine off the street. No turbine PIC requirement.

As this conversation went on they got more and more pissed off at me. I finally asked them if they could confirm a rumor that I had heard, that their CEO scabbed at Eastern Airlines. First they dodged the question, but then I asked them again if they knew if their CEO scabbed. Their VP recruitment said "You're damn right he did, he was the first one to cross the picket line and that strike was bullsh*t." I said "Have a good day" and walked off.

I honestly couldn't ever find their CEO's name on a scab list, so I just asked them directly. Turns out that the rumot is correct and their CEO did scab.

Just another hit against Gulfstream in my opinion.

Also, I ran into a guy that I see come through that labs a decent amount who's also a pilot. I asked him if he was checking the career fair and he said he was going to go check out Gulfstream. I gave him a quick run down on Gulfstream before he went up, and hopefully he talks with them with a little bit more information then he would have previously had.

Gotta write some people letters here at Western for hosting SOB's like these guys.
 
Not really a 'fire' and much deserved of the "General Topics".
 
Good job, John! Don't let those people get fooled by the glossy ads!
rawk.gif
 
Good ole John, ever speaking his mind. I would have asked how his mom felt about him scabbing, but that's just me.

Question about "guilty by association"? If someone supports a scab or the act of scabbing it stands to reason they would have no qualms about crossing a picket line themselves. To steal a line from Bush, We will make no distinction between the scabs who committed these acts, and those who harbor them/support them. Do you feel this is a fair statement?

I have known pilots that do not support it but at the same time do not stand against it. They just go with the flow. Inaction is action against? Seems like your damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 
A few updates.

I went and talked with Flight Safety and ASA after I got done with work. The Flight Saftey guy took down my info and said he'd mail me some stuff about flight training at FSI (they didn't have it there). They were really trying to pimp their Direct Track programs. I also got a little bit better of an explination of these programs.

As he explained it, ExpressJet, ASA and Comair (I think) will interview you for the direct track program. If you are accepted and pass the screening, then you'll pay FSI $22,000 for the training to get you up to speed. You can apply with as little as 200 hours as I understand it. This isn't quite for me, but it's interesting that they are having a track program similar to how European progrmas do it. I still don't know how I feel about 400-500 hour pilots in the right seat of airliners, it's good that they are interviewing canidates before they take your money, and if you don't pass the screening you don't get the training (unlike Gulfstream). In fact if you get accepted to the direct track program you have already been offered conditional employment on the basis that you need to pass the training first. Interesting program. Again, while not for me I'll let others debate the merits of this style program. In the process I got assulted with two pents, a highlighter, a sticker, a bunch of brochures about FSI and a t-shirt. Nice guy.

After this I went and shot the sh*t with the ASA guy for a while. I asked him what they were hiring for and he said mechanics, and that competative for a pilot spot is 4,000-5,000 hours and that they're taking a lot of guys that are furloughed from other carriers. Nice guy who didn't give me any BS in talking about the industry with him. He did note though, that I was the only pilot that had come by today that had half a clue of how the industry was ran (thanks for that, Doug). Most people he said didn't have a clue what to ask him or what to expect from the company. Got his card and went on my way.

Maybe I'll go start a real fight with Gulfstream between now and class...
 
[ QUOTE ]


Maybe I'll go start a real fight with Gulfstream between now and class...

[/ QUOTE ]

I got your back
 
[ QUOTE ]
I got your back


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, me too!
grin.gif


(Not that I'd be much good in a fight right now.......
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)
 
Get off of it. If it is true this was more than 15 years ago. Scab or not, at the end of the day Thomas Cooper owns an airline and all you are is a college student spewing some death to the american dream bs. I would probably say that Thomas Cooper is living the american dream. What are you doing?
nana2.gif
 
True Mr. Gulfstream scabbed 15 years ago, but the industry is still reeling from the aftermath in 2005 -- and will continue to do so for a long time.

Rather hard to simply 'get off it' in my professional opinion.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Get off of it. If it is true this was more than 15 years ago. Scab or not, at the end of the day Thomas Cooper owns an airline and all you are is a college student spewing some death to the american dream bs. I would probably say that Thomas Cooper is living the american dream. What are you doing?
nana2.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Quite an attitude for your first post! Ditto Doug's comment about how it's hard to just 'get off of it' in this industry.
 
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still don't know how I feel about 400-500 hour pilots in the right seat of airliners, it's good that they are interviewing canidates before they take your money, and if you don't pass the screening you don't get the training (unlike Gulfstream).

[/ QUOTE ]

MAPD does this for their PACE program. Two of my buddies interviewed for PACE at the same time, both of them former ATA students. One actually finished the whole program and was waiting on his promised interview. The other was in the beginning stages of Airstage II when the op went under. The second guy is an FO at Mesa now. The guy that actually had more experience but didn't interview as well is working on building time and still on the ramp at MCO. So, MAPD doesn't just take everybody.

[ QUOTE ]
After this I went and shot the sh*t with the ASA guy for a while. I asked him what they were hiring for and he said mechanics, and that competative for a pilot spot is 4,000-5,000 hours and that they're taking a lot of guys that are furloughed from other carriers.

[/ QUOTE ]

But what about those guys from CAPT that just got hiring with ASA with like 400 hours?
 
[ QUOTE ]
What are you doing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Going to bed EVERY night without a guilty conscience.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Get off of it. If it is true this was more than 15 years ago. Scab or not, at the end of the day Thomas Cooper owns an airline and all you are is a college student spewing some death to the american dream bs. I would probably say that Thomas Cooper is living the american dream. What are you doing?

[/ QUOTE ]


let's not feed the trolls now.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Get off of it. If it is true this was more than 15 years ago. Scab or not, at the end of the day Thomas Cooper owns an airline and all you are is a college student spewing some death to the american dream bs. I would probably say that Thomas Cooper is living the american dream. What are you doing?
nana2.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Is that is? That's your last post?
 
One more thing I should add is something else the ASA guy told me but I had forgot to put in my update post; he said when Gulfstream guys apply to ASA they will usually tell them to instruct for a while and then re-apply. Ain't that a b*tch?

And that guy isn't living any American dream. In fact he stole it away from other people who earned their flight time, and were paid for it; unlike rich kid brats who can buy the time. You want the death of an American dream? Scabbing is it man. I'll see that my friend that runs death of an American dream.com writes something about scabbing and how it further underminds the American way of life. Thanks for the tip.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, me too!

(Not that I'd be much good in a fight right now....... )


[/ QUOTE ]


Are you kidding? Pregnant women that I've come across are some of the most dangerous I've met. With those kinda hormone levels, anything goes!

If you fight that Gulfstream guy, I'm bettin' my $$$$ on you.
nana2.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Are you kidding? Pregnant women that I've come across are some of the most dangerous I've met. With those kinda hormone levels, anything goes!

If you fight that Gulfstream guy, I'm bettin' my $$$$ on you.
nana2.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

fight.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
A few updates.

I went and talked with Flight Safety and ASA after I got done with work. The Flight Saftey guy took down my info and said he'd mail me some stuff about flight training at FSI (they didn't have it there). They were really trying to pimp their Direct Track programs. I also got a little bit better of an explination of these programs.

As he explained it, ExpressJet, ASA and Comair (I think) will interview you for the direct track program. If you are accepted and pass the screening, then you'll pay FSI $22,000 for the training to get you up to speed. You can apply with as little as 200 hours as I understand it. This isn't quite for me, but it's interesting that they are having a track program similar to how European progrmas do it. I still don't know how I feel about 400-500 hour pilots in the right seat of airliners, it's good that they are interviewing canidates before they take your money, and if you don't pass the screening you don't get the training (unlike Gulfstream). In fact if you get accepted to the direct track program you have already been offered conditional employment on the basis that you need to pass the training first. Interesting program. Again, while not for me I'll let others debate the merits of this style program. In the process I got assulted with two pents, a highlighter, a sticker, a bunch of brochures about FSI and a t-shirt. Nice guy.

After this I went and shot the sh*t with the ASA guy for a while. I asked him what they were hiring for and he said mechanics, and that competative for a pilot spot is 4,000-5,000 hours and that they're taking a lot of guys that are furloughed from other carriers. Nice guy who didn't give me any BS in talking about the industry with him. He did note though, that I was the only pilot that had come by today that had half a clue of how the industry was ran (thanks for that, Doug). Most people he said didn't have a clue what to ask him or what to expect from the company. Got his card and went on my way.

Maybe I'll go start a real fight with Gulfstream between now and class...

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me start by apologizing for the typing. I am on a laptop with a VERY suspect and tempermental keyboard.


Let me elaborate on the ASA thing a bit.....I am an FSI grad that went from almost zero-time through CFI, & CFII. I moved back home and was instructing for a while but building hours very slowly. I helped a number of students get their licenses, but I did not feel I was progressing at the rate I wanted to. I then came upon the opportunity to interview for the Direct Track program.

Unlike most people think, the program does not attract "rich kids" but mostly older career changers who have the financial means from previous careers/jobs. In my case I felt it more beneficial to go through the program than to continue to instruct and build hours at the rate I was. I felt it was best for me, but everybody must make their own choice.

As far as the process goes, it is by no means a "pay for training" scenario as in the case of Gulfstream. It is a VERY competitive process and there are NO guarantees regardless of how much money you have. You must first be screened and "interview" with FlightSafety just to have your information submitted to ASA. Just because you trained there means nothing. If your records aren't good, you won't be given the opporunity. Then ASA must select you for an interview, and they do not interview all of those who were submitted. You then must pass a full interview with the usual interviewing captains. This is no "watered-down" version. Except for the sim-ride it is the same as for anybody off the street.

If you pass that you are given a "conditional offer of employment". In order to become an employee you must make it through the the FSI training in the Seminole and Saab simulator. The sim ride is also given by top-level members of ASA. Mine was with the director of standards! At any point in the training you can be dropped for whatever reason be it behavior, attitude, grades, skills, etc... People have been dropped and/or held because they were not cutting it. Only after you succesfully complete all of this are you given the official position and a class date with the airline.

A lot has been said about the use of the Saab sim throughout the program. Let me just say that it is fantastic. You are not being trained to be a professional Saab pilot. The purpose of the program is to teach you the glass cockpit (similair 6 screen setup as the RJ), crew coordination, ASA procedures & profiles, FMS (same as the RJ), flight director/autopilot,etc...The saab sim does all of this just very well. Also if you can fly that beast, something as smooth as the RJ will be easier.

As far as the benefit for both parties, ASA gets relatively young, motivated pilots who will stick around for a number of years with the airline. FSI uses the program for marketing and gets a pipeline for their students into the airline. Also, the grads of the program have done remarkably well in training with pass rates much better than typical off the street guys. From what I understand only 2 students have washed out in the history of the program and rumor has it that it was attiude related and not skills.

As far as instructing goes I feel it is invaluable. As a matter of fact the ASA diretor of standards says the typicalcandidate from the FSI program is not a 200 hour guy but probably closer to 400-500 hour guys/gals. I would not trade my time in the right seat at all. It teaches you a LOT about situational awareness, division of atention, multi-tasking, self-preservation, people skills, decision making, etc....but in my own situaion I felt it time to make the change. With the state of the industry, Independence laying off hundreds, Chicago Express, and numerous others, I feel I got in at the right time for me....and worst come to worst, I still have both my instructor certificates an my degree to fall back on!

Everybody, evaluate your own position and make the decision that works best for you.

I hope I was able to help a couple of people.
 
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