JordanD
Here so I don’t get fined
Because it's still an unknown and a crappy thing for anyone to go through while they're just trying to feed their family, particularly when it's not a 2005-2008 situation where everyone is flirting with bankruptcy.
Spirit Furloughing
- Thread starter ASpilot2be
- Start date
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
I've spent a non-zero amount of time in the last few months talking various people off of various ledges and trying to get them aboard elsewhere, with varying degrees of success on each.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Let’s see what ATBlue said:
“not all of us conclude this”
So ATBlue concludes that the DOJ decision was not bad for the public. Essentially, you support this merger being turned down, because by implication, it’s good for the public. You therefore have to subsequently support what is happening to the individual airline as a result of the fallout.
For the record, the DOJ decision was terrible for the public, terrible for JetBlue, and terrible for Spirit.
You act like Spirit’s turmoil is all because the merger was blocked. It’s not. Doug has spent his entire career helping and volunteering to further the career for his fellow pilots. What exactly have you done other than run your mouth?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
It was exacerbated when the DOJ turned them down. Had that not been the case, the merger would have closed this January once the DOJ approved. Sure, jetBlue would have made some tough decisions but it wouldn’t be worse than the current scenario playing out. Plus, things like a TPA you can fight for protections like no furlough for 2 yrs.
I’ve helped pilots here in regards to VX back in the day (2012-2016), and a couple for virtual shop as well.
CFIT99
I'm probably commenting ironically...
so you're in support of the F9/NK merger before B6 decided to throw a ton of money in hopes of a takeover...which for the record was the plan all along, it was the worst kept secret at F9.
the decision was in response to JetBlue trying to force their hand and being the only one without a dance partner...in turn the NEA with American was terminated (which AA pilots hated that agreement btw) and the DOJ decided this hurts the public more than the companies, thus leaving the employees of JB and NK with the burden.
Greedy Execs, poor management, and un checked capitalism resulted in this, not a decision by a judge...
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
If you ask me, I think Frontier - Spirit made more sense.
JetBlue has been trying for a while. VX failed, and when F9 made a play for SAVE, they jumped in.
The reality is the same DOJ has approved tons of mergers in the past and allowed 4 big airlines to control 85% of the capacity. The remaining carriers are Alaska, Hawaiian, jetBlue, Frontier, Spirit, Allegiant, and smaller niche carriers like Sun Country, Avelo, Breeze.
The big 3 have domestic and international markets to profit from. The rest have minimal to none. The big 3 have a far greater market cap and a greater ability to secure $$$ when things go bad. Greater fleet to use as collateral, sell slots, routes, etc, and not feel as big a dent.
The smaller carriers don’t have that luxury. They have much smaller market caps, limited amounts of capital access, etc.
It is irresponsible of the government to allow the big 4 to form but then take a stance against the remaining 8 little guys. They can’t compete long term against the big 4. Just watch in the next big downturn.
Your last sentence is wrong, in the sense that while it was mismanaged, a victory for the merger would have meant that SAVE doesn’t exist and it is all JetBlue. There would be Wall Street behind the merger powerhouse and Spirit would NOT have gone through a BK as a jetBlue entity.
TWA was toast, done, but the AA merger saved what remnants could be saved. Sure, there were staple jobs and laws were passed as a result. But TWA MD80s, 757s, and the STL hub stayed open a long time under AA, and TWA pilots continued to fly once recalled.
JetBlue offered several large concessions. Ending the NEA and giving northeast slots to Allegiant to ensure another low cost option. In fact, arguably, it was the largest of voluntary concessions made by any major airline in the last 30 yrs to help push a merger through.
roundout
VNAV monitor
He has an @alpa.org email address
P2P rep
The position in which one gets to talk like they know what's going on.
Boots2Wings
Just happy to be here.
He has an @alpa.org email address
P2P rep
The position in which one gets to talk like they know what's going on.
They just give those emails to anyone these days it seems
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
That's not how I remember it. You were pro Frontier & Spirit until you weren't. When it profited you as usual as someone with SAVE stock. Then you were pro JBL and NK. Stating how JB and NK made more sense because of the truck full of money and stock that JB was offering NK. Stop with the after effects change of sides/stories.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I’m not digging up old history, but I assume my commentary was most likely in regards to fiduciary duty. Like how JetBlue stopped at $55/share for Virgin, and Alaska did $57/share. VX’s fiduciary duty required them to take the higher offer too present to investors to vote on. Similar story to F9 and B6. F9 was a one time dividend payout, and then a company share ownership in the new company. JetBlue came in all cash at $33.50/share. That was the much higher offer, and the fiduciary duty to present it to investors. From a moneys spect, yes jetBlue was the one. But from a ULCC standpoint, I’ve always thought F9 and SAVE would hook up.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
That's some creative reaccounting... you were all in for yourself as a SAVE investor, wanting the stock to soar and for you to profit as a result. Your singular only motive. You forget, but I remember!
CFIT99
I'm probably commenting ironically...
And how many times did they say NO before, the execs and shareholders got greedy…
bimmerphile
MCAS Meat Inhibition Logic
I like how he refers to it with the stock ticker compared to every other airline
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
It’s because the current management regime has been completely inept since Covid. No one has any confidence that they have any clue how to manage Spirit and guide them through a Chapter 11.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Bringing back the edgy advertising will save spirit
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, this is a long time coming. Day 1 hour 1 of indoc at Spirit March 2012 I was proudly told "more people eat at McDonalds than Ruth Chris Steakhouse". Eh, ok what about revenue? No cargo, no mail contracts, no frequent flyer program to speak of.
A few months later during initial OE at my current place, I see them loading cargo and mail on the airplane. Then cargo pallets sitting at SFO ready to be loaded to places around the world, then an integrated frequent flyer program. The industry changed after 2008. While there was a brief opening for the ULCC's and they did OK during that, but as airlines are banks now with their own currencies, that opening has passed.
Best of luck to those at Spirit.
A few months later during initial OE at my current place, I see them loading cargo and mail on the airplane. Then cargo pallets sitting at SFO ready to be loaded to places around the world, then an integrated frequent flyer program. The industry changed after 2008. While there was a brief opening for the ULCC's and they did OK during that, but as airlines are banks now with their own currencies, that opening has passed.
Best of luck to those at Spirit.
