Spirit Airbus Near Mid-Air Collision with Skydive Plane

[DE727UPS]

It was miss-communication between ATC and Spirit. The article looks like it was written to scare people instead of giving facts (probably because it wouldn't have been news had it been the facts).

If the mis-communication was the controller thought him saying he had him on TCAS was the same as calling the traffic in sight, then it's time to make a major issue of this. Pilots should NEVER say we have him on TCAS (or fish finder). That should be meaningless to ATC. Traffic in sight means you see the other aircraft out the window.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Meh.

400 feet and 1.6 miles separation? I have come much closer and didn't dive down like a little girl. It definitely would have made me put my coffee down and pay attention though. Hell, I probably would have muted my music even.

I was with you until the muting the music.

 

[derg]

If the mis-communication was the controller thought him saying he had him on TCAS was the same as calling the traffic in sight, then it's time to make a major issue of this. Pilots should NEVER say we have him on TCAS (or fish finder). That should be meaningless to ATC. Traffic in sight means you see the other aircraft out the window.

This.

Traffic in sight or traffic NOT in sight.

 

[TrustMeI'maPilot]

I've been taught RA's have formulas built in so that when it gives you the alert you only need to comply using normal maneuvering. I was told the pax should not feel anything abnormal in the back.

Is this wrong? I've probably only had 6 or 7 of them but with those I never did anything abrupt.

 

[Bud01]

This was a completely blown up by the media situation. I know the pilot and he has already spoken with the FAA, and has been cleared. It was miss-communication between ATC and Spirit. The article looks like it was written to scare people instead of giving facts (probably because it wouldn't have been news had it been the facts).

you from the local area? this happens to be right over my hometown.

 

[Bud01]

I've been taught RA's have formulas built in so that when it gives you the alert you only need to comply using normal maneuvering. I was told the pax should not feel anything abnormal in the back.

Is this wrong? I've probably only had 6 or 7 of them but with those I never did anything abrupt.

i had one the other day and didn't do anything abrupt and was out of danger in no time.

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

I heard from the grapevine last week that a 747 going missed out of JFK came within 100 ft of a S5 E-170 climbing out of LGA. Sounds a lot bigger of a deal than this media frenzy...

 

[skyhawk340]

you from the local area? this happens to be right over my hometown.

I started my flight training at JXN, so pretty close.

 

[boondr]

I wish I could find the audio of me sarcastically telling a CHQ pilot to "Maintain TCAS separation"

 

[boondr]

I heard from the grapevine last week that a 747 going missed out of JFK came within 100 ft of a S5 E-170 climbing out of LGA. Sounds a lot bigger of a deal than this media frenzy...

the grapevine is apparently like the old game of "Telephone"

http://avherald.com/h?article=4642d1ae&opt=0

 

[PositionAndHold]

I've been taught RA's have formulas built in so that when it gives you the alert you only need to comply using normal maneuvering. I was told the pax should not feel anything abnormal in the back.

Is this wrong? I've probably only had 6 or 7 of them but with those I never did anything abrupt.

That's pretty much it. No need to push so hard some one gets hurt. You should be able to smoothly push/pull right into the area the TCAS is commanding. The problem comes when you hear "DESCEND, DESCEND" your brain naturally thinks you're in imminent danger, I think that leads to over controlling. Every RA I've ever had I've been ready to maneuver before the aural warning, which I'm sure it's the same for most pilots. I would imagine its rare to have an RA that the pilots weren't already looking for or being told to look for the other A/C.

 

[wheelsup]

Well doing the math, assuming 3k fpm down that low, he got the warning at 14,400 so 600' below the other aircraft. That is 12 secs from passing through his altitude. Now subtract for time to put the coffee down and take over, down to 10 secs I bet. If a brick wall appeared in front of the plane 12 secs away how fast would you guys push, just saying.

 

[derg]

I've been taught RA's have formulas built in so that when it gives you the alert you only need to comply using normal maneuvering. I was told the pax should not feel anything abnormal in the back.

Is this wrong? I've probably only had 6 or 7 of them but with those I never did anything abrupt.

Really? I've have two RA's in a decade. Maybe three.

 

[wheelsup]

Really? I've have two RA's in a decade. Maybe three.

I've had three...in a single day. In and out of HPN.

 

[mikecweb]

I've had 5. 3 in a single day going into SDL.

 

[HVYMETALDRVR]

the grapevine is apparently like the old game of "Telephone"

http://avherald.com/h?article=4642d1ae&opt=0

okay 200' and 1/2

 

[ClarkGriswold]

I've been taught RA's have formulas built in so that when it gives you the alert you only need to comply using normal maneuvering. I was told the pax should not feel anything abnormal in the back.

Is this wrong? I've probably only had 6 or 7 of them but with those I never did anything abrupt.

Personally I think aggressive control inputs are necessary, bins opening and people screaming are good style points too.

Anywho, RAs shouldn't be noticed by anyone in the back but people do tend to freakout a little.

 

[JustinS]

Woops. That skydive pilot better put on those carpet dancing shoes.

From what I've seen, most skydive places you don't need a pair of carpet dancing shoes because there is no carpet.

 

[jtrain609]

I heard from the grapevine last week that a 747 going missed out of JFK came within 100 ft of a S5 E-170 climbing out of LGA. Sounds a lot bigger of a deal than this media frenzy...

If the grapevine is CNN, then yes.

 

[ppragman]

I wish I could find the audio of me sarcastically telling a CHQ pilot to "Maintain TCAS separation"

I've actually done this before.
Approach: "Freighter 741, Uhh, you've got a 100kt overtake on an arriving EMB-170, can you slow to minimum approach?"
Me: "Uhh...is that the guy I'm showing on TCAS,10NM in front of me?"
Approach: "Uhhh, yeah...why?"
Me: "How much separation do you need? I'll maintain a mile more than that and if I get to close just send me around."
Approach: "Alright...that's a new one, sure, I'll let you know if you get too close. I need XX amount of separation."

Worked great, I just kept the dot outside of the appropriate ring, and followed him in on the ILS. Before I switched to tower the guy says, "that was kind of neat, never seen that before."