Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Agreed. If it goes this way, make it a 2-way street.
Skiles and Age 65+
- Thread starter BobDDuck
- Start date
Agreed. If it goes this way, make it a 2-way street.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
How is it being worked on? As stated, it is already being done by a multitude of carriers.
Also quite hypocritical to be bitching about foreign pilots, when you worked at a place that it was 99.9% expat, especially when you had the chance to come back to the unionized US Carrier you were furloughed from. By your logic, didn't you precipitate the problem by staying in the Middle East instead of coming back to a unionized carrier here in the United States? Also the labor issues over there are A LOT deeper than the fact that someone, somewhere in the world was going bankrupt.
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Seggy
Well-Known Member
He is on record advocating for H1-B for skilled workers. Do a Google search.
Slightly different angle, but all the big agencies are advertising like this now also:
Apply for Green Card and Fly in the USA! - FCI
Apply now for the Apply for Green Card and Fly in the USA! position. Flight Crew International will work with you throughout the application process.fci.aero
Ok...I did Google it. What he wants is COMPLETELY different than what you are typing....
Pete Buttigieg’s plan to use immigration to revitalize shrinking communities, explained
Place-based visas could help America’s declining cities.
www.vox.com
From the article, emphasis mine...
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Wow your tone changed. You used to be on the ALPA bandwagon about ANYTHING remotely seen as a threat, including the “ME3” threat (complete BS). Even more nonsensical BS when they were against US Customs in Abu Dhabi for Etihad. Of course, you had no complaints when United did service from Bahrain to Kuwait.
There will be no pilot shortage. You will see pilots come here on H1B and/or 1500 hr rule changed to adopt MPL. That is until they figure out pilotless airliners. Then there will never be a pilot shortage. That is much longer term, but things are headed that way.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I think at least this much is true. At least not to the point where it is going to make a difference in anyone's career progression
I'm not disputing what you say but am unaware of what airlines are currently soliciting and using H1B visa holders.
I'm aware of the limited use of E3s.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Nope, tone hasn't changed.
Yes, the ME3 was and still is a huge threat. I also don't have a problem with fifth freedom flights by carriers that play fairly.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
David Neeleman's Startup Breeze Rankles Pilots Union With Australia Workaround
Some pilots want higher wages than Breeze wishes to pay. Why shouldn't the airline look abroad for labor? It is a perfectly legal program.
skift.com
Seggy,
Yes, I've seen that info and am aware of Breeze with the E3 offering. Since that's limited to Australian citizens, it's different from the H1B which appears to have a much broader base of potential visa applicants. Just curious about how widely successful H1B pilot applicants from other countries might be with US carriers.
Yes, I've seen that info and am aware of Breeze with the E3 offering. Since that's limited to Australian citizens, it's different from the H1B which appears to have a much broader base of potential visa applicants. Just curious about how widely successful H1B pilot applicants from other countries might be with US carriers.
typhoonpilot
Well-Known Member
I hesitate to get into a debate with you because you make so many assumptions to begin with.
Explain how it is hypocritical. I had to leave the USA in order to have some semblance of a successful career after a second furlough. Not a whole lot of U.S. carriers hiring in 2002/2003 timeframe as I recall. Wasn't it you who was going to quit flying and become a lawyer or something? My move to overseas and my continued promotion of that option here and elsewhere helped a few hundred American pilots find jobs overseas during the down times. That lasted into the 2008/2009 downturn as well when many more furloughed pilots came to the ME3. I don't ask for thanks, just my way of being a good person to help where I can.
Not taking a $150,000/year pay cut to return to a bankrupt airline without a pension plan actually helps U.S. pilots. Supply and demand, you understand that concept, right?
Pointing out danger where danger exists is also not hypocritical. Few people better than me to know the danger of foreign pilots at an airline.
I can lead you to water, but clearly you won't drink it because of your personal hang ups. Have a nice day.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Nope, not making assumptions, just trying to follow your logic.
Sure! See below...
I fault no one for going to the ME3 in the 2002-2008 timeframe, but it is hypocritical to get on a soap box about "traction for better terms and conditions" when you know that the labor laws over there are quite a bit different than over here. I think the former IFALPA head went to fly for Qatar when his airline shut down. I am sure he would have tried to make it better if he was legally allowed to. If I went over there to fly I as well would understand, it is what it is.
I am sure, with your experience, you could have gone to Continental/Southwest/JetBlue/FedEx/UPS/Delta when they were hiring from 2005-2008, but decided to stay overseas. Fine. Not exactly a supply and demand issue as you frame it. You could have been a Captain at all of those places years ago and have easily made up that $150,000/year as well if you didn't want to go back to your US Airline.
I don't disagree, but you still haven't provided evidence that the person you mentioned is actively pushing for it here. I followed what your wrote and googled what you suggested to google. I then pointed out how the concept he was promoting is completely different than bringing a pilot over here to work for an airline.
Have a wonderful day as well!
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Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
How is ME3 a “huge threat?”
And define “playing fairly”
How ironic. YOU were going to go from 737 CA to JOBLESS and once that reality bit, you along with countless others lobbied for government bailout. A government backing, the very thing you accuse the ME3 of having which is an “unfair advantage.”
Got news for you, all three ME3 carriers got no such help when it came to their employees. THOUSANDS were let go.
But please, go on and explain to me how the ME3 is the boogeyman.
Says the guy whose salary in 2020 was covered 100% by the taxpayers thanks to the government actions.
The irony is rich and pathetic.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
The low time imports don’t have 1,500 hours, and thus don’t qualify.
High timers won’t come here because they can’t be a DEC. They turn their nose up at having to go to the bottom of any list.
Anyone trying to change the ATP rule is going have an ugly PR campaign along with blowback from the Colgan families, who are still quite active. No Congress critter is going to put their name on that.
Age 67 kicks the can exactly 2 years, and probably not even that.
High timers won’t come here because they can’t be a DEC. They turn their nose up at having to go to the bottom of any list.
Anyone trying to change the ATP rule is going have an ugly PR campaign along with blowback from the Colgan families, who are still quite active. No Congress critter is going to put their name on that.
Age 67 kicks the can exactly 2 years, and probably not even that.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Is it 67 or 68? I keep hearing the two variations.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Depends on who is spinning the yarn.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Age Unlimited: Fly Til You Die
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Even in good times, when US Airlines were making money, the ME3 had to be subsidized by their governments to survive. That isn't fair to the US Carriers
See above.
So triggered and see my first point, again.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Show your math. What proof do you have about your claims?
None.
None whatsoever.
Now add the bailout the airlines in this country have gotten since 9/11. The airline stabilization loans. The Covid bailouts. PSP by itself - which was literally only to keep you paid doing nothing - was in the millions.
There’s no comparison. See, I just gave you proof about government sponsored bailouts of US airlines.
Where’s yours on the ME3? And no, ALPA boogeyman said so doesn’t count.
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
I’m normally on your side, but the vacation all of y’all passenger airlines received was more than the ME3 were accused of. Y’all got paid to be home while us freight dawgs worked our butts off. You received similar government handouts to stay home as the ME3 received fuel.
Yes, in the past, the ME3 had muddy waters that the government was helping them. The US airlines had direct and irrefutable help during the pandemic.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
We were literally paid FULL salary to stay home and do didly squat. I have buddies from my regional that went to Emirates and were CAs there. It was literally like AOL's "Goodbye!" and they were jobless.
I don't want to hear an ALPA passenger airline pilot complain or beotch about government help for a foreign airline ever again.
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