Silver Airways Saab Lands At Wrong Airport

Seggy said:
So they should be violated HARD then? What will that accomplish? Doubt they would make the same mistake again.
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Maybe nothing, or perhaps a violation could serve as a solid reminder of a past mistake. However, I agree with what some, and maybe you, have said about self discipline over mistakes. BUT, I just don't agree with getting a slap on the wrist(or no consequences) over this particular incident. We're gonna go back and forth on this until we're both blue in the face and calling eachother meany heads. Contrary to how I may be coming off in this thread, I respect your, and others opinion and maybe someday I'll catch onto more of what you're talking about, but it won't be today.
 
jhugz said:
Hacker15e

What will happen to the guys that landed at the wrong airport a couple weeks ago. Just trying to get a comparison between the two. Military and Airlines.
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Honestly, I don't know. It depends on how the winds are blowing in both the "local" and senior level AF leadership.

Generally, the AF makes a large distinction between a "mistake" and a "crime". Mistakes are forgivable, crimes are not.

At a minimum, the whole crew will get busted checkrides and lose whatever qualifications they hold. Further action will depend on how those winds are blowing, up to and possibly including losing their wings all together. Sometimes the AF is on a warpath to prove a point when people screw up and aren't shy about throwing a pilot or two under the bus to prove that point....unfortunately.
 
Having worked closely with folks invovled in a similar situation in the 121 world, it really depends on how they handle the event after the mistake. If they made good decisions and use the ASAP program then they will be interviewed by several different departments and a plan will be made to get them retrained and back on the line. The retraining will likely be composed of ground training to include CRM, company procedures, etc. After the ground training there will be sim training to include LOFT type scenerios and likely a warm up or two for the 709 ride that will certainly be required by the feds. Honestly, there isn't much that can be taught to these guys that they haven't already learned. This is all considering they made good decisions after the event and they have a little support because the feds and/or company will likely want action.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
But Gonzo! Huggies is a vaunted "captain on a turboprop!" Surely he knows more than this 121 captain with 6 type ratings, and is imminently qualified in just culture safety programs. :sarcasm:
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Yet I still can find the airport I'm landing at. Maybe they don't teach that lesson at the gulfstream academy. I wonder if you can et your money back?
 
On the subject, I think I'll just say that if I landed at the wrong airport, I'd expect to have my hindquarters served to me. By the PTS, you can bust a checkride by being a couple hundred feet high on a steep turn or going through the MDA by a few feet. Would I be grateful for a second chance? Absolutely. Would I expect it or somehow think it was owed to me? No. Maybe there were a zillion reasons these guys dicked it up...it happens. And maybe, just maybe, they're decent or even good pilots who had a really, really bad day. That happens, too. But I don't think it's out of line for someone to suggest that landing in the wrong place is kind of a big deal.

FWIW, I hope they do get another shot, because I have a hard time wishing unemployment on anyone. But the strange corollary to that is that some people seem to be wishing unemployment on huggles for having an opinion they don't agree with, which is, I think, maybe a slightly less egregious crime than landing an airplane in a place other than where you think it is. *shrug*
 
When it comes to making mistakes in aviation, those that have and those that will.

Some peoples' mistakes are larger than others and some have more catastrophic ramifications, but we all make 'em.
 
I think it's mostly a cultural difference. When I flew 91/135, yeah I would expect to be fired for screwing up something like this. But in the 121 world there's a substantially larger and more complex safety network involved. For most 91 and 135 outfits it's just easier (and cheaper) to blame, then fire the pilot and hire a new one. In the 121 world there's a far larger web of people and systems that want to find out how the mistake was made, what can be learned from it, and how the training/dispatch/flight following program may need to be modified to prevent this kind of mistake from happening again.
 
Er. I just don't see how this is a 121/135/91 issue. They landed an airplane at the wrong place. Which means they didn't know where they were. Which is pretty Bad, whatever part of the FARs you happen to operating under. The airplane doesn't have a clue what regulations are governing the flight, and I find the notion that something that is so obviously Not Good is believed to be like graded on a sliding scale that somehow has to do with which giant bunch of words the Gummint applies...strange. Confusing, even.

I don't think that I'm immune to anything. Catch me on the wrong day, who knows, maybe I could make the same mistake. But if I made it, I would genuinely think that it was totally fair if the Feds took my license, tore it up in front of my face, and gave me a Burger King uniform for my future career.

As I said, I hope that doesn't happen to these guys. I hope they get a chance to explain their side of the story, and I hope it's a convincing story, and I hope they get retrained and live out the rest of their days flying airplanes to the right airport.

But I admit that I'm pretty puzzled by the virulence of those who seem to think that failing to have pity or fellow-feeling for some dudes who pretty obviously screwed up in a huge way is worse than having done the screwing up.
 
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