Autothrust Blue
Speed Bugs, Surf, Sunshine
Same as last summer.
Scott Kirby's Frontier and Spirit Prediction
- Thread starter SeanD
- Start date
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
Oh it will be much worse this time if the airspace moves. From what we’ve been told EWR will be running about 16 arrivals an hour. Normally during the summer we’re running 40-60 hour
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Boots2Wings
Just happy to be here.
How on earth our management hopes to attract business clientelle without wifi, or tables latge enough for a laptop to work on is beyond me
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
The United express gates in DTW used to be run by unionized professionals and it showed. Lots of long time employees who took pride in their jobs and got things done.
I flew in there a couple weeks after it was outsourced and I was going to investigate why the green tag bags were taking so long when a passenger asked me “what are these, temp workers?”
“I mean, basically.”
EasyJet is just better at being… EasyJet.
I don’t know what the solution is other than somehow increasing revenue in a very price conscious market. Like everyone screaming about Family Dollar, Dollar General and Dollar Tree having issues. It’s not inflation, those stores had become ubiquitous around the United States and they created this massive behemoth that required bigger and bigger bags of ALPO to feed the rapidly growing Pit Bull. Might have been better at a leisure or business market without trying to be all things for all people, nationwide, friends fly free, we’re the cheapest.
I think the American ULLC’s tried too hard to be EasyJet like the various “Dollar” stores tried too hard to be a soulless version of Japan’s Daiso.
I’m sure some tech bro or “I left my job on Wall Street”-type will and try to copy IKEA next.
I don’t know what the solution is other than somehow increasing revenue in a very price conscious market. Like everyone screaming about Family Dollar, Dollar General and Dollar Tree having issues. It’s not inflation, those stores had become ubiquitous around the United States and they created this massive behemoth that required bigger and bigger bags of ALPO to feed the rapidly growing Pit Bull. Might have been better at a leisure or business market without trying to be all things for all people, nationwide, friends fly free, we’re the cheapest.
I think the American ULLC’s tried too hard to be EasyJet like the various “Dollar” stores tried too hard to be a soulless version of Japan’s Daiso.
I’m sure some tech bro or “I left my job on Wall Street”-type will and try to copy IKEA next.
SeanD
Well-Known Member
Anyone remember United’s experiment into the low cost market with ‘Ted’? I think they basically decreased legroom and threw in a new row of those plastic seats. Man that was an uncomfortable ride from LAS to IAD. At least Delta’s version ‘Song’ had 757s with seat back entertainment.
Autothrust Blue
Speed Bugs, Surf, Sunshine
The Spirits, Frontiers and JetBlues (I SAID WHAT I SAID) of the world also counted, and ran upon, a pilot labor cost discount, which they were able to secure for, well, quite a while, because for a long time there were more pilots wanting legacy jobs than there were legacy jobs. All those places had to do was be better than RJ world, and that’s not hard to do AT ALL, job-wise.
They don’t really have that discount, anymore.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Anyone who’s pays the slightest bit of attention to the pilot marketplace in Europe and other spots knows that it is a long train carrying dumpsters on fire, heading for that steep curve in Smalltown, PA.
BA, KLM, Air France, Sabina, Swissair….I mean, those used to be THE jobs to covet. Retire at 55, and get your French thing on vacationing 24/7/365.
Now it’s definitely not that. Even the “good” jobs aren’t that good, and somehow they’ve managed to convince the pilots over there that this is the new hotness. Everyone for themselves and better make sure your individual contract is paying the right taxes to the right people, or get hauled into tax court.
No application of seniority, as we understand it, assigned schedules, work rules that are, ahem, minimalist, and EASA flight time rules that make you give a hearty, Bill Murray-esk “I think it sucks”.
That said, in reference to IKEA….my new evil prank will be to send someone 5 or 6 IKEA boxes with no directions, and the parts all mixed up.
Every time someone complains about working conditions, I start talking about Air Canada over the river and it gets really quiet.
SATAN!
Soku39
Well-Known Member
I got involuntarily activated/mobilized this year and was pissed to be flying a C-17 for 50% of my airline pay. Then I'd hear Air Canada getting their oceanic with Shanwick and immediately felt bad that I was complaining about my temporary situation that would end in 8 weeks. Like man I'm making nothing and still makin' way more than that dude...
Sculprit
Well-Known Member
A couple months ago a bud and I were sitting at The Spiral Staircase in NRT and an AC crew sat beside us. I knew it wasn't the best over there but holy moly were we enlightened as well as realized how lucky we were to be in the positions we are at when the Skipper asked us about our qol and work rules and than told us about theirs.
I know we've hired A LOT of Canadians. There is probably employee parking available at Windsor, YYZ and YVR.
SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
Or ask our friends over at Virgin Atlantic that we own part of, about their pay/etc.
Last ones I talked to were doing ATL-MAN (that SJI used to fly, back to the TriStar days) on an A330-300…2 man crew, no relief pilot…and Capt made less than I did on 2nd year 737 FO pay!
I’ve got a buddy on the 737 MAX at AC, and we compare notes when he feels like being kicked in the balls.
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///AMG
Well-Known Member
I recently (on a trip to YVR) googled Air Canada pay scales. Holy •, even before taking into account the dismal exchange rate they have (which makes it especially worse), those rates blow. Pretty sure WB up there doesn't even match NB here. And the COLA is insane if you aren't in the sticks.
But to @Richman 's point, how did the euro/crown/colonies subsidized airlines get to the state that they are in now?
Autothrust Blue
Speed Bugs, Surf, Sunshine
There is still work to be done, here.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Rapid cycles of privatization, without stopping to think that the rate or scope was such a good idea. Kind of like how well (not) electrical privatization has worked out in some places.
We like to bust on California, and some of it is warranted, but Euro land seems to have a bad miasma of policies that let companies evade the normal checks and balances by hiding in counties that let them get away with...stuff, but also relieve those same countries of having any responsibility to their employees, because that’s soaked up by the government. It’s also very, very difficult to have a Euro wide labor movement, and it seems to have fostered a nasty “every man for himself”, where your “workers paradise” turns into Lord of the Flies.
The UK has its own problems, but the commonwealth countries have their own serious issues and a nasty totalitarian streak. I think this stems from a system that lets the majority parties to make long term decisions on a fairly rapid cycle without letting the ideas percolate any period of time to figure out if they’re even good ideas. “Hey, let’s allow cabotage for all our long haul flying! Those middle eastern carriers will look out for us”. Buh bye QANTAS.
Say what you want about the good ole U S of A, but I think our relative gridlock and glacial process serves to sniff out bad ideas before they become bad policies. We do have good labor protections that actually apply nationwide. And, believe it or not, and for all the complaining, those provisions, a good National organization, and a coherent strategy of pattern bargaining it has served us relatively well.
Autothrust Blue
Speed Bugs, Surf, Sunshine
For all the problems the Association has, try imagining life without it.
That, plus mentioning 24 J., usually makes people get real quiet.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
I don’t have a crystal ball but I *think* B6 had at least a cocktail napkin plan for this. I’m seeing little threads and ripples here and there that lead me to think (perhaps wishfully) that B6 is going back to creating its own aspirational niche in the market. It’s do-able, really an act of will, and with enough of it I think it will prevail. I’m cautiously optimistic about how Marketing is reading things, if only because it seems to confirm my own conclusions. There are a few key things I think we need to do, and we seem to be trending that way.
Then again, we might be collective dumbasses. Time will tell.
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
I miss old F9. Not 737 F9, but late 90's early 2000's F9. Still v friendly, decent legroom, reasonably comfy seats and everyone generally enjoyed their job. Once upon a time I had visions of making it a career there but obviously times have changed.
Too bad that can't or likely won't get back to that formula.
