Scabs

[aloft]

So please tell us which strike you were involved with. Tell us how it displaced your family. Tell us how normal activities remained during the strike. Tell us what you told the kids as Thanksgiving and Christmas would be spent in a strike again.

Please tell us

That's precisely my point: I've never been through any of that, which is why I'm not in here saying "scabs suck! I'll never scab! No scab will ever ride my jumpseat!". Unless you've walked a mile in their shoes (as their fellow pilots have), you have no right to say diddly.

And Matt: that's an apples-and-oranges comparison, bro.

I will say this: anyone who puts their career before their family has their priorities in disarray.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

I can agree with you wholeheartedly, but when this all started I expressed the situation of a man that couldn't find anything else with his family dependant on his wage coming in every week. They have no money set aside , he literally has no options. If the only way for him to make money is to cross that picket line so he can put food on the table then I'm all for it. There is no way I can tell a man to let his family starve. Like I said, if he can get his hustle on doing something else then he should do that.
I can see both sides to this, but in my eyes providing for family trumps anything else. A scab only thinks of himself when him/her and their family can make do during a strike and they still cross the picket line. If a man has no options and crosses the picket line, I would hardly call him selfish especially considering what he'll have to put up with.

Besides, there are too many men out there not providing for family or their children and they all have silly excuses. So if a man has a legal way to provide vs. not providing then I'm all for providing anyway he can legally.

Ed man, outa everyone on this site, I both talk to you the most and probably know you the best.

All ethical mubo jumbo aside man, you're talking outa both sides of your mouth brah. Either you will scab or you won't. The paragraphs I quoted more than say that you would!

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

That's precisely my point: I've never been through any of that, which is why I'm not in here saying "scabs suck! I'll never scab! No scab will ever ride my jumpseat!". Unless you've walked a mile in their shoes (as their fellow pilots have), you have no right to say diddly.

And Matt: that's an apples-and-oranges comparison, bro.

I will say this: anyone who puts their career before their family has their priorities in disarray.

Eh, me thinks you should quietly read this thread from here on out, and or apologize to those who have family members who have been on strike and as a child of said parent(s) they know or have heard first hand about it.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

I will say this: anyone who puts their career before their family has their priorities in disarray.

What if they strike BECAUSE they're looking out for their family?

 

[Sprint100]

Ed man, outa everyone on this site, I both talk to you the most and probably know you the best.

All ethical mubo jumbo aside man, you're talking outa both sides of your mouth brah. Either you will scab or you won't. The paragraphs I quoted more than say that you would!

If that was all I could do and if I faced same the circumstances I noted, there would be no choice. The way I currently set myself up and continue to set myself up, I have choices and options so I wouldn't have to.

 

[aloft]

Eh, me thinks you should quietly read this thread from here on out, and or apologize to those who have family members who have been on strike and as a child of said parent(s) they know or have heard first hand about it.

That is secondhand by definition. And as I said, the child NEVER has the complete story. It's just not possible. Being the child of divorcing parents is not the same as going through a divorce as a spouse.

So why are you so interested in what people with no direct knowledge of the scabbing situation have to say about it? I'd rather hear from the Pt 121 pilots, personally.

 

[Tram]

This is the kind of emotional drivel I talked about in my post. Calm down man... Comparing a scab to a child molester? Give me a break...

I knew someone would think I was comparing a scab to a child molestor.. Can't see the forest for the trees I guess.. They are nothing alike and I would welcome a scab much sooner than a child molestor.. I am not comparing the two to each other.. I simply chose to use something that I knew most would find negative..

Substitute child molestor for anything negative you like..

The point I was trying to make is this...

If you condone the actions of a person, you are no better than they... Thus the scab and friends comment..

 

[Tram]

Apologies to you and MTSU for expressing myself in a manner that didn't respect your legal opinions in regards to a legal activity.

I can't tell if that is sarcastic or not, but if it's heart felt, no sweat man..

If you feel the need to support scabs, so be it.. It is indeed your opinion..

I don't support scabs or anything they stand for nor anyone who supports scabs..

 

[OldTownPilot]

Aloft, Of the people on this site Tram is probably the most knowledgeable about strikers and scabs. I guess you still don't want to listen to him even though he is a 121 pilot.

The person that I have first hand info from lives in the same house as me, and had provided for me when I was growing up. He has flown with a lot of scabs as a FO. He has shared those experiences with me after asking questions and listening. I have been on several trips with him, and seen first hand the actions of scabs. I have also had a family member, outside the airline industry, loose their job to a scab while I was in high school. The actions during that that strike galvanized my feelings about strikes and scabs. I guess my opinions are worthless too.

If a full term striker came on and posted I would certainly yield to them, but until then this is what you've got.

You have decided to put on a facade to be some one that you are not. Just like your favorite member Chris Ford. And like I told him: "It's kinda sad when you have to put a facade on to make yourself sound cool on an internet board."

 

[Tram]

So why are you so interested in what people with no direct knowledge of the scabbing situation have to say about it? I'd rather hear from the Pt 121 pilots, personally.

I think perhaps his issue with your posts would be the same issues I hold with your posts..

You tend to keep coming off as though you have been near to the situation.. IE You have been through a strike yourself.. I thought - just from the way you have been presenting yourself - that you were a fighter pilot who had been through a strike.. Just based on your attitude/comments/etc in a couple threads.. Come to find out.. You are a <300 hour civvy pilot..

So, following your logic.. Those of us who have dealt with a strike and all the excitement surrounding it, should have much more room to speak on the subject than someone who has admitted they have never been around the subject..

IE...

Let's say you have 3 men standing around..

Guy A - has never been divorced, never known anyone to divorce, etc..
Guy B - had his parents divorce when he was a kid, lived with the struggles a divorce causes, etc..
Guy C - Is a divorced male..

Now..

Guy A has zero experience and his opinion holds very little weight on the subject..

Guy B has a great deal of experience with divorce and his opinion holds a good deal of weight..

Guy C has perhaps, all the experience one might care to have on the subject, and his opinion of course holds more weight than Guy A and B..

To say that anything Guy B has to say on the topic of divorce is worthless - is just silly..

The guy who has zero to lend to the divorce conversation is the Guy A..

 

[aloft]

Aloft, Of the people on this site Tram is probably the most knowledgeable about strikers and scabs. I guess you still don't want to listen to him even though he is a 121 pilot.

Did Tram even get off IOE at his first employer? If I remember correctly, he hasn't even started training at his second. Hardly a wealth of experience there, especially compared to some of the long-time Pt 121 pilots like ROFCIBC, and several others.

The person that I have first hand info from lives in the same house as me, and had provided for me when I was growing up. He has flown with a lot of scabs as a FO. He has shared those experiences with me after asking questions and listening. I have been on several trips with him, and seen first hand the actions of scabs. I have also had a family member, outside the airline industry, loose their job to a scab while I was in high school. The actions during that that strike galvanized my feelings about strikes and scabs. I guess my opinions are worthless too.

Yes, your opinions on scabbing are worthless to me. Have the person you're getting all your info from to post, I'd love to hear their opinions based on their FIRSTHAND experience.

You have decided to put on a facade to be some one that you are not. Just like your favorite member Chris Ford. And like I told him: "It's kinda sad when you have to put a facade on to make yourself sound cool on an internet board."

You're full of sheet there, bro; no facade here whatsoever. And I'm certainly not pretending that my opinions on an industry in which I have yet to work a single day are valid by any stretch of the imagination. You can't exactly say the same now, can you...

 

[Tram]

Aloft, Of the people on this site Tram is probably the most knowledgeable about strikers and scabs. I guess you still don't want to listen to him even though he is a 121 pilot..

I doubt I am one of the most knowledgeable on the site..

However, I have seen a strike - the real deal Holyfield strike which involved scabs, a major airline go POOF and all the excitement surrounding it.. I would know about as much about scabs and a strike that a kids who parents have divorced would know about divorce..

Have I ever struck? No, Lord willing, I'll never have to..
Do I have a healthy disrespect for scabs? You betcha'..

 

[Sprint100]

I can't tell if that is sarcastic or not, but if it's heart felt, no sweat man..

If you feel the need to support scabs, so be it.. It is indeed your opinion..

I don't support scabs or anything they stand for nor anyone who supports scabs..

No sarcasm at all. Just like I have opinions others don't agree with, others have opinions I don't agree with and as soon as we lose respect for these opinions, that just makes it that much easier to lose respect for the person.
Keep in mind, I'm talking about opinions on legal stuff. No way can I respect an opinion on selling crack, etc.

 

[Tram]

Did Tram even get off IOE at his first employer? If I remember correctly, he hasn't even started training at his second.

Did I get off IOE at Regions? Yeh.. I resigned as the #1 FO.. A little over a year flying the line..

Do I hold a wealth of aviation knowledge? Not at all.. However, I do have more time hand flying a Jball 32 in SOLID IFR than you have total time..

 

[Captain_Bob]

He would no longer be welcome in my home... my kids couldn't hang out with his.

Understood... that's your choice.

He would no longer be welcome in... my church.

What kind of church do you go to? What do they teach about forgiveness and treating others regardless of what they have done to you?

I wouldn't pull over if his wife was broke down on the wrong side of town, surround by hoodlums ready to have at her.

I really wouldn't care if they robbed and beat her, and she had no way to protect herself.

From what I know of you... I sincerely doubt the above statements Lloyd... (That's a good thing, IMHO). Please don't try to prove me wrong on that.

I understand the arguement here. I'm not a scab... I don't ever intend to be a scab... but there are some very basic concepts of being a human being... and a christian (if that is your belief) that you are forgetting with those specific statements...

Bob

 

[Tram]

No sarcasm at all.

Cool cool..

 

[Tram]

Yes, your opinions on scabbing are worthless to me. Have the person you're getting all your info from to post, I'd love to hear their opinions based on their FIRSTHAND experience.

His opinion about scabbing is probably as worthless to you, as your comments are worthless to me..

You don't want to hear FIRSTHAND opinions, you have already discounted them..

I guess the wife of the President of the USA, a cancer survivors significant other, the brother of a Marine killed in Iraq, etc could lend you ZERO insight into the life of the PUSA, a cancer suvivor or the life of a dead Marine..

However, maybe I can talk my pops into signing on here and giving you his account, however, I seriously doubt he'd waste as much time as I have on this thread.. However, I can already tell you, I was raised by my father and was able to hear his account.. Much of what he would have to say, would be very similar to what I have said, as that is where I learned it..

I saw what my dad and uncle went through.. from what I learned there has taught me the way I feel today..

 

[butt]

He would no longer be welcome in my home, my church, my kids couldn't hang out with his. I wouldn't pull over if his wife was broke down on the wrong side of town, surround by hoodlums ready to have at her. I really wouldn't care if they robbed and beat her, and she had no way to protect herself. After all, he wasn't looking out for my family.

jesus christ, just listen to yourself.

All politics aside, I'd never treat another human being this way. No matter if they "scabbed", were a child molestor, a person of a different color, a different religion, or anything.

You would honestly tell your kids to not be friends with another kid because of what their parents did? If being a pilot means you have to treat OTHER HUMAN BEINGS this way then maybe it's time for me to find a new line of work

 

[Tram]

Wow.. MTSU really hates a scab..

Can't say I'd let it go that far, and I would almost bet he wouldn't either...

 

[Dugie8]

jesus christ, just listen to yourself.

All politics aside, I'd never treat another human being this way. No matter if they "scabbed", were a child molestor, a person of a different color, a different religion, or anything.

You would honestly tell your kids to not be friends with another kid because of what their parents did? If being a pilot means you have to treat OTHER HUMAN BEINGS this way then maybe it's time for me to find a new line of work

I don't think you guys quiet get the real implications of what a scab does, has on the workforce and the industry. This is a person who is working, taking money, while you are on the street NO income trying to make a positive change.