Rumot mill running fast: New ASA mins come Jan 08

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mtsu_av8er said:
mastermags said:
Some people simply will NOT accept that answer. They'll curse out the airline and tell them it's a stupid opinion, rather than accept the truth.
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As someone who has done both traffic watch and instructing, I can definately say that traffic watch is an awesome way to build flight time (and a lot of fun to boot); however it is definately a subpar way of building experience. Instructing is by far the best way for the new commercial pilot to build experience. As my grandfather always said, "you've got pilots with 20 years of experience, and pilots with 1 year of experience 20 times."
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PCL_128 said:
Nor should they. There's nothing wrong with building your time in other ways, and some of the best FOs I flew with built their time in nontraditional ways. Not everyone should be a flight instructor.
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No, everyone shouldn't be an instructor, but time in a logbook is just ink on paper. In this case, as laughable as the minimums are, the company has said that they don't really want pilots who have built their time (LOW time at that) drilling holes in the sky.
 
Cjordan said:
What's MPL stand for?
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Multi-crew Pilot License. Basically, it's a pilot certificate that is only valid for flying in the crew environment of an airline. A pilot overseas that gets an MPL is legal to fly an A380, but he could never go down to his local airport and rent an airplane to fly solo because he doesn't have a PPL. An overwhelming majority of the training is done in the simulator. If I remember Captain Rice's briefing (it's been a while), I think the MPL graduate only lands an actual airplane 10 times before getting his license. Everything else is done in the simulator.
 
PCL_128 said:
Multi-crew Pilot License. Basically, it's a pilot certificate that is only valid for flying in the crew environment of an airline. A pilot overseas that gets an MPL is legal to fly an A380, but he could never go down to his local airport and rent an airplane to fly solo because he doesn't have a PPL. An overwhelming majority of the training is done in the simulator. If I remember Captain Rice's briefing (it's been a while), I think the MPL graduate only lands an actual airplane 10 times before getting his license. Everything else is done in the simulator.
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That's scary!:panic: Is that why JAA students come to the US to fly, so they can get flight training that isn't available or affordable in Europe?
 
PCL_128 said:
ALPA has been working on the MPL issue since early last year behind the scenes. I'm not sure what the latest developments are, but Captain Rice himself was in charge of dealing with this, and I can assure you that he feels very strongly about stopping this program from making it to the US. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion at all that the MPL will make it here.
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ATA has a bigger pile of money than ALPA. The business case has been made and it clearly favors MPL training in the US "IF" the safety answer can be satisfied to ATA and the insurance underwriters. "IF" the answer is "YES" then it will happen.

The bigger pile of money will prevail.

The airlines will have achieved their goal: To control the supply of commercial pilots.

Same goal the AMA has used for decades.

Too bad ALPA has been distracted with so many irons in the fire they lost this one. Pilot supply was the keystone.
 
seaav8tor said:
ATA has a bigger pile of money than ALPA.
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The ATA is in the pockets of the wrong politicians this time around. Their biggest supporters are in the minority party. The party in control of the committees and the floor schedule is not on the side of the ATA.

Too bad ALPA has been distracted with so many irons in the fire they lost this one. Pilot supply was the keystone.
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This one is far from lost. Don't give up yet. I think we actually have the upper hand on this one.
 
H46Bubba said:
That's scary!:panic: Is that why JAA students come to the US to fly, so they can get flight training that isn't available or affordable in Europe?
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You are correct that they come here because it is cheaper. But as of right now they do basically the same exact training in America as they would do in Europe except they also have to take 14 extensive exams over there.

From what I know I think there is only one school in the world offering this MPL license so far and it is in Philippines. They only get to fly 70hrs and I think it is not solo and everything else is in a simulator. Heres the link http://www.alphagroup.aero/uploads/File/Clark%20Aviation%20Cadet%20Info%20Pk%20Rev%203%20Oct%2007.pdf
 
 
seaav8tor said:
ATA has a bigger pile of money than ALPA. The business case has been made and it clearly favors MPL training in the US "IF" the safety answer can be satisfied to ATA and the insurance underwriters. "IF" the answer is "YES" then it will happen.

The bigger pile of money will prevail.
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Not necessarily. It's all in who controls the law makers, as PCL_128 already pointed out. History is full of times ALPA went up against the deep pockets of the ATA and won.
 
aloft said:
I got a play-by-play for over 14 months from a buddy of mine who went turboprop track and is now in HC-130s. Going from T-6 to C-12 to C-130s, he never has and likely never will fly a USAF aircraft with a turbojet engine.

<SNIP>

Hacker, keep in mind that JSUPT has changed UPT considerably, and that the experience is now radically different for fighter dudes vs. heavy dudes vs. turboprop dudes.
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Well, then I would say that you could potentially make the assertion that the T-44 to C-130 track is like the flight academies.

My experience on the way to a fighter cockpit was not even remotely easy, nor anything at all resembling an academy.

Certain parts of the military training pipeline may be that way, but to make such a statement about entire programs when you're only hearing about one small sliver of one program is just not accurate.
 
surreal1221 said:
I've been planning on applying in January or early February as it is. These lower minimums are not a good sign for me. I am expecting to be >500/100 (current mins) by January.

With a mass influx of 250/25 guys, or even the great ol ' jet-transition kiddies applying as well, I may have some problem getting picked up.

Which, is my problem personally. Professionally, it's obvious that these 250/25 hour minimums are not a good sign for the profession.
surreal1221 said:
I fear this too. Murphy's Law gets me EVERY SINGLE TIME!!! I think that when I am retirement eligible from the AF ('bout 5 years) I can see the MINS at all the "decent" regionals being 1500/500. I was reading the posts back in 2002-03...man it was bad. It's great to see articles about CFIs finally being paid a fair wage (Flight Safety 52K a year? Cool!). I also can see the MPL coming to fruition making all he money I have spent for all my ratings just about worthless. Guess I will keep my fingers crossed that it will be "all good"...careful planning and financial responsibility will be name of the game...
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surreal1221 said:
I've been planning on applying in January or early February as it is. These lower minimums are not a good sign for me. I am expecting to be >500/100 (current mins) by January.

With a mass influx of 250/25 guys, or even the great ol ' jet-transition kiddies applying as well, I may have some problem getting picked up.
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Why do you think you would have trouble getting picked up? It's not that the companys want to hire lowtime guys, it is just that they are scraping the bottom of the applicant barrel.
 
mastermags said:
Why do you think you would have trouble getting picked up? It's not that the companys want to hire lowtime guys, it is just that they are scraping the bottom of the applicant barrel.
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Apply at Pinnacle with 500/100 and see what you get: an e-mail telling you to re-apply when you have 1000/100 or do a jet transition program. Seriously.

Me over a year ago: "These RJ courses are bad. Eventually, we might see airlines setting them as minimums, thus increasing the overall costs of getting to an airline."
Several starry-eyed students: "Oh, you're just bitter b/c you did the CFI thing. That'll never happen."

Airlines like the jet transition guys b/c they can breeze through ground school. Why not? They've already paid to do it once before. It's when they get out on the line in real world ops that things start falling apart. Thing is, airline management doesn't give a hoot about that. Isn't that why the CA is there, to hold things together? Who cares if his/her workload increased by a factor of 5, that's what they get paid for, right?
 
E_Dawg said:
At the time I probably had 300/25. That was one of my most memorable and fun flights. But if I had 50+ paying people behind me it would have been borderline criminal!
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But if you had the job offered to you flying 37 passengers in Dash 8s after being unemployed and low on cash for 3 months, would you politely decline the offer saying "I'm sorry Mr. Recruiter, I have decided that I do not have enough experience and won't accept the position, even though other people with ultra low time will take my position anyway." ???
 
JaceTheAce said:
But if you had the job offered to you flying 37 passengers in Dash 8s after being unemployed and low on cash for 3 months, would you politely decline the offer saying "I'm sorry Mr. Recruiter, I have decided that I do not have enough experience and won't accept the position, even though other people with ultra low time will take my position anyway." ???
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Jason, don't rationalize your decsion. The best way to be a low time pilot is to not think that your entitled to be there or think you're hot ####!

Be humble ask question, listen, learn and you'll be golden!
 
kellwolf said:
Apply at Pinnacle with 500/100 and see what you get: an e-mail telling you to re-apply when you have 1000/100 or do a jet transition program. Seriously.
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I had a friend who recently got an interview with pinnacle with only 250 hours and an RJ course. Strange they will interview someone with 250 / RJ program but not someone with 500/100.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Jason, don't rationalize your decsion. The best way to be a low time pilot is to not think that your entitled to be there or think you're hot ####!

Be humble ask question, listen, learn and you'll be golden!
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I am being very humble and learning all that I can. I have a LOT to learn. :)
 
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