Right Seat Captains

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Should FO's taxi the airplanes?

 

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What happens if the FO is running late because of a last minute scheduling reassignment?

 

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Is it really important to 'know' the Manuals or 'know' how to reference it? It's kind of hard to 'know' a couple of thousand pages. A lot easier to look it up.

 

[Roger Roger]

Is it really important to 'know' the Manuals or 'know' how to reference it? It's kind of hard to 'know' a couple of thousand pages. A lot easier to look it up.

I don't often agree with you, but when I do, it's with this post.

 

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Maybe I'm just getting old and I want these damn kids off of my lawn, but I don't think that there is any place in this world for FOs that think they should be writing stuff up and calling up MX and DX and just taking over the show because they feel like they're large and in charge.

Do I need to call my Captain from a few weeks ago and apologize to him for calling MX when he was in OPS getting the paperwork?

He was very appreciative that I was keeping the operation going especially as we were flying to a hub with a lot of premium international passengers on our flight who were connecting to international destinations, but according to you I should have sat on my hands.

So do I call and tell him I was wrong according to the internet?

 

[Autothrust Blue]

This.

The captains I dislike flying with the most are the ones who aren't willing to take responsibility and get things done.

Company wants to put a BS MEL on the plane that doesn't actually address the problem? "Ok, that's fine." Not OK.

We are holding and I'm the one who has to calculate bingo fuel because "nah, we'll be ok."

When I, as the FO have to be the one to raise the BS flag, we have a problem.

A little leadership goes a long way and creates an environment where the entire crew not only is willing to perform, but WANTS to help out.

Yup.

The leadership vacuum, from time to time, is rather demoralizing; whether it's something as simple as "that is not enough fuel to complete this operation safely" or something as...equally simple as "this is the third time you've written up and deferred that pack fan the same way, perhaps the pack fan is not the problem" someone needs to be able to see The Big Picture and put their foot down about it. "Legal, yet unsafe" is a very broad category with very bad consequences should you find yourself there.

I'm a lot more willing to engage and be more productive when I'm convinced that the other half of the flight crew is interested in what I have to say; when it's clearly a one man show (we have a few of those, and some of them are Queegs), I'm a lot less likely to be that way.

A right seat CA (good type) can be an asset. If a guy missees a checklist I just run it and say it's "complete". That's not a flipping challenge to anyone's authority, you missed it, I pick it up. I hope to God you do the same. Mesaba begged for that, Pinnacle doesn't need that sort of adult behavior in the cockpit. Ask the guy you've now spent 15 legs and 18 hours in the cockpit with if it's ok if you chime the FA when it's CAVOK. Or when the temp dumps to -8C and the cowls still aren't on IMC. How about I just throw the switches forward and say, "Cowls on for ya." Jynxy, you sure do tell a lot of stories! Wait, you're going to miss my conclusion. A right seat captain can be a good thing for the real captain if he want's help.

So you have a bad right seat CA, a good right seat CA, but the good right seat CA can only be that if the real CA isn't going to shut FO down for making decisions (sometimes wrong ones) on their own.

PS: yes, there are FO's who exercise poor judgement, but that's 5% of your FO's. Mostly they just do things a little different, and different normally isn't bad. A good CA will show that FO where his choice could be even better with a little mentoring.

The anti-icing thing is just another example of an "obvious Right Thing." A lot of things in aviation are actually Obvious Right Things.

The best Captains will give you just enough rope with which to start to hang yourself, but will be standing by to cut you down quickly, I think. I would rather make the bad decision under the wing of the Captain now (who is standing by to extricate us) than make it as a Captain later.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Do I need to call my Captain from a few weeks ago and apologize to him for calling MX when he was in OPS getting the paperwork?

He was very appreciative that I was keeping the operation going especially as we were flying to a hub with a lot of premium international passengers on our flight who were connecting to international destinations, but according to you I should have sat on my hands.

So do I call and tell him I was wrong according to the internet?

Meh. Not in my book.

 

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When I was Captain this was my briefing to set the CRM tone....works real well....

Don't get me killed, violated, fired, and no unnecessary paperwork.

 

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Meh. Not in my book.

But the internet says otherwise!!!

 

[NewYorkophile]

Do I need to call my Captain from a few weeks ago and apologize to him for calling MX when he was in OPS getting the paperwork?

He was very appreciative that I was keeping the operation going especially as we were flying to a hub with a lot of premium international passengers on our flight who were connecting to international destinations, but according to you I should have sat on my hands.

So do I call and tell him I was wrong according to the internet?

 

[jtrain609]

If you think he's just being an •, then you're missing the point of this discussion and thusly receiving no benefit from it. These situations happen, and FO's need to know how to deal with them.

And I don't just mean writing up the issue. I mean knowing when to step up, and when not to. These discussions help elucidate the bounds of when doing so is appropriate and when it's not, and how other operations deal with these issues.

As an example, somebody above said that FO's don't do anything at their airline from an operational perspective. At my last job, the right seat was a pretty busy seat. At the current job, the duties are split much better. Knowing that folks are coming from different experiences, knowing how those operations deal with it, knowing how YOUR operations deal with it, and generally gaining experience is invaluable.

To just drop meme's into a thread like this doesn't help.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

There's a new hire here at Blue who has completely trashed his reputation. First, he turned in his fellow classmates to training leadership for passing around the "gouge." Second, he wrote up a few captains after literally just finishing IOE for various stupid things, all without discussing it with anyone prior to doing so. Every captain at his base knows his name, and his trips are unpleasant.

I know that's an extreme example of over reaching and not knowing boundaries, but man oh man he has really damaged his QOL.

 

[Cptnchia]

Wow, guess I'm glad to be at SJA. We don't seem to have this problem. FOs are expected to do everything that needs doing that the captian hasn't done, or doesn't want to do, while using good common sense. While there are a few strictly captain only things, even those aren't, depending on the boss.

 

[NewYorkophile]

The point of his post was to poke holes in the thread, not add to discussion. His points weren't wrong...

Every airline, and every plane, is going to have a unique culture and set of boundaries for the crew dynamic. Some airplanes require a very open environment to operate- some do just fine with a vertical hierarchy. In each situation, evaluate your training and the present culture to determine what actions to take if safety is not a factor.

A better thread would be "here's how the FO/Captain relationship works at my company on the A320."

 

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There's a new hire here at Blue who has completely trashed his reputation. First, he turned in his fellow classmates to training leadership for passing around the "gouge." Second, he wrote up a few captains after literally just finishing IOE for various stupid things, all without discussing it with anyone prior to doing so. Every captain at his base knows his name, and his trips are unpleasant.

I know that's an extreme example of over reaching and not knowing boundaries, but man oh man he has really damaged his QOL.

Crap like this infuriates me.

Mind sharing this person's background?

 

[SpiceWeasel]

@crazyjaydawg ,

Re:no FO write ups....

I learned my first week on the line that sometimes, if I want it done, I have to do it myself.

"The next crew will get it."

"We will write it up in base."

"If you want to waste your time with paperwork, go ahead."

"I'll just do the reset procedure myself."

"Why did you write up the goggles? If the strap doesn't fit it's because your head is too small, not that the strap is over-stretched."

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

Crap like this infuriates me.

Mind sharing this person's background?

Honestly, I don't know it, but @kellwolf may. It infuriates me too. This isn't 6th grade, and you aren't the damn hall monitor.

 

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Some airplanes require a very open environment to operate- some do just fine with a vertical hierarchy.

Ahhhh.......

WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?

At my place it is expected to have a very open environment.

 

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Honestly, I don't know it, but @kellwolf may. It infuriates me too. This isn't 6th grade, and you aren't the damn hall monitor.

Like the dude didn't have the gouge when they interviewed....

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

Like the dude didn't have the gouge when they interviewed....

The gouge is out there. Everybody knows it. Don't be stupid and bring it into the open.

The part that really gets me is him writing up a captain for checking that his phone was off prior to takeoff. He told the CPO that the captain was texting.