Returning to flying - Looking for advice

[Autothrust Blue]

I know of many pilots doing just that.... It is indeed possible. I have a buddy here at SkyWest doing that as a first officer on the ERJ. He bids reserve, and is basically paid to sit at home playing video games since he is never called. And my friend at Spirit is on reserve during his first year, and flies perhaps five hours per month. He is currently recording songs for his rock band.

This experience is not normal.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Hi all,

After a failed 2-year business venture, I have decided to return to flying. I currently have about 2,500 TT, of which around 1,500 is SIC B737/8 time (expat Copa Airlines flying).

I've been browsing around the different job listings, and though I seem to meet the published minimums at some of the major carriers, I must ask - What do you think my odds really are after being absent from flying for two years and no college degree?

A little background: I worked as a CFI and imagery pilot but left for Copa before being picked up by a regional. As I left for Copa with only a CMEL, I never obtained my FAA ATP. I did, however, complete my ATP written and required CTP course after returning to the US. No ding/dents on record or checkride/written failures (YET!) knocks on wood

I'm in my mid-thirties, single and quite flexible in terms of where I can live and equipment I fly. I would prefer a carrier that would allow me quite a bit of time at home -- even if this means sitting on reserve.

Long story short, I am looking for suggestions as to which path(s) would be best and realistically attainable in my current state. Also, has anyone been through a similar transition? If so, what materials would you recommend for bringing myself back up to speed aside from the FAR/AIM?

Many thanks in advance!

Well if you find such a unicorn, let us all know.

Why do you want to sit at home? Do you not enjoy flying aeroplanes?

 

[ppragman]

LOL ok expert.

I mean, this is my experience from the feeder side of things.

 

[GypsyPilot]

This experience is not normal.

You mean getting TDY’d to some dump out east all month isn’t normal?! Ha ha.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

You mean getting TDY’d to some dump out east all month isn’t normal?! Ha ha.

I did one better (or worse), I moved to the dump out east.

 

[GypsyPilot]

I did one better (or worse), I moved to the dump out east.

At least it wasn’t DeToilet.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

At least it wasn’t DeToilet.

All I did was clean up Detroit messes. (Flying, or otherwise, grumble.)

 

[Nark]

@ppragman! Jtrain is out of his element, yet again... If it wasn’t for me chatting with a ton of UPS pilots as of late, I’d be inclined to believe his garbage. I have BSed with a metric poop ton of UPS pilots over the last several months, none have complained.

Take the same sample of any Delta Connection carrier and say the same thing about big Delta. I doubt any RJ pilot would scoff at the opportunity to wear a double breasted blazer, despite being crapped on for years by the big D.

 

[ppragman]

@ppragman! Jtrain is out of his element, yet again... If it wasn’t for me chatting with a ton of UPS pilots as of late, I’d be inclined to believe his garbage. I have BSed with a metric poop ton of UPS pilots over the last several months, none have complained.

Take the same sample of any Delta Connection carrier and say the same thing about big Delta. I doubt any RJ pilot would scoff at the opportunity to wear a double breasted blazer, despite being crapped on for years by the big D.

It's good for the pilots, but they treat their front line employees and ramprats like hot steamy garbage in my experience.

In my estimation, the worth of company is in how they treat their most expendable employees, not in how they treat their most valuable ones. JTrain may be a hack because he never flew the line at Amflight, but the sort during peak is reminiscent of Upton Sinclair's "the Jungle.". Granted, UPS is probably better than Bezos Logistics Inc, but I personally witnessed degrading and awful working conditions in that organization and have zero desire to be apart of that if I can help it.

I wouldn't work for them, even if granted the opportunity to fly for them. I've said it before, but I don't think the ends justify the means. I'd be shorting myself out of millions of dollars over a career, but I am pretty convinced that place is evil. Think of how CZ got his start running his feeder operation - UPS had zero problems with an uncertified air carrier flying for them to make money as long as it was cheaper than the alternative. They do not care about safety in any of the feeders, or in any of the contract labor they hire. Think of the cargo carveout - if memory serves UPS lobbied for it.

Now, don't get me wrong, plenty of people work there as pilots and love it and mainline is objectively a good job as a pilot, but they treat a lot of people like crap so that those pilots can have a good quality of life. I don't begrudge anyone who works there as a pilot, but I remember questionable conditions.

FedEx feeders aren't that much better I suppose, but yeah, given what I know, I have zero desire to work for Big Brown.

 

[BobDDuck]

@ppragman! Jtrain is out of his element, yet again... If it wasn’t for me chatting with a ton of UPS pilots as of late, I’d be inclined to believe his garbage. I have BSed with a metric poop ton of UPS pilots over the last several months, none have complained.

Pssst.... he wasn't talking about the pilots. He was talking about the Company.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

JTrain may be a hack because he never flew the line at Amflight,

I mean...that's not the ONLY reason...

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Take the same sample of any Delta Connection carrier and say the same thing about big Delta. I doubt any RJ pilot would scoff at the opportunity to wear a double breasted blazer, despite being crapped on for years by the big D.

Their loyalty to their Connecshun (sic) pilots is approximately zero.

 

[Nark]

Pssst.... he wasn't talking about the pilots. He was talking about the Company.

But we were talking about being a pilot for UPS. This isn’t a trucking forum last I looked.

Delta isn’t the cat’s ass, as far as treating their employees well either. Yet there are countless examples of pilots cozying up to recruiters at the urinals, no less.

 

[jtrain609]

Pssst.... he wasn't talking about the pilots. He was talking about the Company.

Correct. I imagine the pilot group is like any other, mostly good dudes, some DB's.

But when you work for a company that would rather hire management pilots to fly the line instead of union pilots, something is wrong.

 

[DE727UPS]

but they treat a lot of people like crap so that those pilots can have a good quality of life.

I disagree. What the pilots HAVE, is a highly effective independent union AND a pilot group that is largely supportive. The pilot group has fought tooth and nail to make UPS amongst the top tier pilot career destinations. It's often said UPS got the union they deserve. I don't think UPS treats people any different than any other borg like, big corporation. It's all about min cost to boost stockholder value.

 

[DE727UPS]

Correct. I imagine the pilot group is like any other, mostly good dudes, some DB's.

But when you work for a company that would rather hire management pilots to fly the line instead of union pilots, something is wrong.

Yeah, that's a good point. You have to understand the history of UPS. They have always believed in, and always had, a certain management style that was old skool. Like, they have alway made money hand over fist so never really saw any reason to change or modernize. And it's a trucking company, not an airline, so you have to understand things are a little different with that. As to the management pilot issue, they got their nose under the tent with that one back in 88 and have never been able to change it. The IPA, each contract, has more and more restricted the how management pilots can be used with some success. They mostly do training, checking, special projects, and stuff behind the scenes. They are a liaison between the line pilot and other parts of the airline management. Over peak they do come out and fill in the extra flying much like the contract carriers. They don't fly the line in any normal sense, like they don't bid lines (outside of peak). If they fly for proficiency they must displace with pay or if they do "emergency" flying it's tracked and reserves get days dropped with pay. It's a weird system and one the IPA is not at all fond of. The union is constantly working towards a solution.

 

[jtrain609]

Yeah, that's a good point. You have to understand the history of UPS. They have always believed in, and always had, a certain management style that was old skool. Like, they have alway made money hand over fist so never really saw any reason to change or modernize. And it's a trucking company, not an airline, so you have to understand things are a little different with that. As to the management pilot issue, they got their nose under the tent with that one back in 88 and have never been able to change it. The IPA, each contract, has more and more restricted the how management pilots can be used with some success. They mostly do training, checking, special projects, and stuff behind the scenes. They are a liaison between the line pilot and other parts of the airline management. Over peak they do come out and fill in the extra flying much like the contract carriers. They don't fly the line in any normal sense, like they don't bid lines (outside of peak). If they fly for proficiency they must displace with pay or if they do "emergency" flying it's tracked and reserves get days dropped with pay. It's a weird system and one the IPA is not at all fond of. The union is constantly working towards a solution.

Yeah that's a hard one to drag back. What's the end goal? Make all management pilots seniority list pilots?

 

[DE727UPS]

Yeah that's a hard one to drag back. What's the end goal? Make all management pilots seniority list pilots?

End goal is to reduce the numbers by restricting or "buying back" as many of their duties as possible. We are slowly getting experienced line pilots back into the training center vs a newb who often has no real world experience. Make it cheaper to use line guys to do what the management guys do. They only way to bring them onto our list is staple and even then it would cause a huge disruption to the status quo. I'm sure the company would encourage it if we gave up a major contractual item. But I don't see that happening.