Reno race crash in front of grandstands

Bandit_Driver said:
If the pilot wasn't expecting and sitting properly for a G load that high, isn't it possible he could have broken his neck too. I have a friend that flies F-16's and said one of the guys in his unit did a rapid pitch up at the end of the runway showing off for his family and severly damages his neck as he wasn't seated correclty for it.

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Anything is possible, and nothing can be discounted until there's evidence for or against. That said, my question would then be what the pilot would've been doing to be out of position, ie head turned, etc. Normally seating and looking forward, one shouldn't expect a G onset to cause neck injuries.

On that note, your F-16 pilot friend's incident is even more perplexing regarding injury, since he was making an intentional maneuver and would've obviously been prepared for it.
 
MikeD said:
Anything is possible, and nothing can be discounted until there's evidence for or against. That said, my question would then be what the pilot would've been doing to be out of position, ie head turned, etc. Normally seating and looking forward, one shouldn't expect a G onset to cause neck injuries.

On that note, your F-16 pilot friend's incident is even more perplexing regarding injury, since he was making an intentional maneuver and would've obviously been prepared for it.
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I'd assume underlying issue/ previous injury.. but then again I've had a bad wreck with no issues / been rear ended by a small body truck doing 25 and not been able to turn my head for days.

For some reason, the pictures where you can't see him have been nagging me. I assume in that plane he would be wearing a proper 5/6 point harness, which shouldn't allow him to slump that much... or its just a very small canopy.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
For some reason, the pictures where you can't see him have been nagging me. I assume in that plane he would be wearing a proper 5/6 point harness, which shouldn't allow him to slump that much... or its just a very small canopy.
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Depends if the harness is locked or unlocked, allowing forward movement or not and assuming that feature was available in the cockpit. In that regard, to give a frame of reference, in 10 years of flying fighter-type aircraft, I never flew with the restraining system locked, as I needed the movement mobility within the cockpit. I tested that the locking mechanism worked when first getting in the seat each flight, but the only real time I would've locked it would be prior to a controlled ejection. Photo-wise, it'd depend on the seat height and picture angle. Could be any number of factors.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
I assume in that plane he would be wearing a proper 5/6 point harness, which shouldn't allow him to slump that much... or its just a very small canopy.
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I can't speak for the harness setup in Galloping Ghost specifically, but if it's like every other Mustang and high performance airplane I've been in, the harness is on an inertial reel that only locks with x axis deceleration. Under Z-axis (G force) acceleration, it would remain unlocked (unless manually locked, as Daff mentioned).

Like MikeD, I also never flew around with the harness locked for cockpit mobility reasons. Being able to check six, as well as reach all the switches in the cockpit, was more important than having my shoulders pinned to the seat the entire sortie.

Unless the cockpit was specially configured such that all the switches and controls could be fully manipulated with the harness locked, I can't think of a reason I'd fly around with it locked all the time.
 
Hacker15e said:
I can't speak for the harness setup in Galloping Ghost specifically, but if it's like every other Mustang and high performance airplane I've been in, the harness is on an inertial reel that only locks with x axis deceleration. Under Z-axis (G force) acceleration, it would remain unlocked (unless manually locked, as Daff mentioned).

Like MikeD, I also never flew around with the harness locked for cockpit mobility reasons. Being able to check six, as well as reach all the switches in the cockpit, was more important than having my shoulders pinned to the seat the entire sortie.

Unless the cockpit was specially configured such that all the switches and controls could be fully manipulated with the harness locked, I can't think of a reason I'd fly around with it locked all the time.
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Right, I was thinking they would run something more like what you would find in a pits/etra etc... just a straight up harness without the reel. Makes sense if that's what they were running. Our harnesses are the same, 5 point inertial wheel, with a lock... only time I've had it locked would be when the fo sneaks it on.
 
So I have been hearing that all the fragments of blue foam in the debris field were from some kind of tank design/system to prevent a plane from erupting into flames upon crashing. Anyone know anything about this?
 
fholbert said:
You might want to look at that again, a lot of people have died at Reno in the last 5 years. Maybe 17? I was blasted on the AOPA forum in 2007 when I said the Reno races were too deadly and should be stopped. What NASCAR track in America kills 3.5 people a year?
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Using that logic, and math, I can think of many airports that should be closed, as well.
 
Brian29 said:
So I have been hearing that all the fragments of blue foam in the debris field were from some kind of tank design/system to prevent a plane from erupting into flames upon crashing. Anyone know anything about this?
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They've been using this for fuel cells in auto racing for years. The fuel is suspended in the foam and prevents it from sloshing and it also prevents it from atomizing in the event the cell is ruptured.

http://www.fuelsafe.com/store/enduro-cell/core-cells.html
 
MikeD said:
Depends if the harness is locked or unlocked, allowing forward movement or not and assuming that feature was available in the cockpit. In that regard, to give a frame of reference, in 10 years of flying fighter-type aircraft, I never flew with the restraining system locked, as I needed the movement mobility within the cockpit. I tested that the locking mechanism worked when first getting in the seat each flight, but the only real time I would've locked it would be prior to a controlled ejection. Photo-wise, it'd depend on the seat height and picture angle. Could be any number of factors.
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Assuming 22g, couldn't the seat belt/harness attachments have broke?
 
I think your bones would break and ligament, tendons stretch/tear before nylon does - remember shoulders do all sort of funny things during birth so you don't get stuck. Even as an adult, with enough force (or if you are 70+ not that much force) your shoulders can can change shape to help you squeeze out.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
Right, I was thinking they would run something more like what you would find in a pits/etra etc... just a straight up harness without the reel. Makes sense if that's what they were running. Our harnesses are the same, 5 point inertial wheel, with a lock... only time I've had it locked would be when the fo sneaks it on.
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I could see that being the case in a straight-on acro aircraft that has a smaller cockpit.
 
Brian29 said:
So I have been hearing that all the fragments of blue foam in the debris field were from some kind of tank design/system to prevent a plane from erupting into flames upon crashing. Anyone know anything about this?
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Reticulated foam has been used in military aircraft fuel cells at least since the 1960s to reduce sloshing and protect against fire in the event of damage from AAA or other hostile fire.
 
WacoFan said:
Assuming 22g, couldn't the seat belt/harness attachments have broke?
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The 22g, Im assuming, was an instantaneous spike during the initial pitch-up, which would've been pushing down on the pilot into the seat, not against the straps.
 
Amazing that YouTube took down all those videos yet NBC airs those clips of the plane crashing into people nationwide.
 
It is a tough call whether to leave those videos posted or not - on one hand it is freedom of publication, on the other it is sad for the families.
 
I_Money said:
It is a tough call whether to leave those videos posted or not - on one hand it is freedom of publication, on the other it is sad for the families.
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If they are going to take down the Reno crashes, then they need to take down ALL crashes.
 
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