Reno race crash in front of grandstands

That last video posted is unbelievable. There seems to be quite a few folks here that knew the pilot and many of the spectators involved. I am terribly sorry for your losses. May they have tailwinds and blue skies.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Look, I'm not going to stomp on graves this soon, but every time there's been a tragedy in aviation, we learn something and move on. Hopefully the same can happen here and at some point the races will return.
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Unfotunately, in todays litigious society, once the lawsuits begin rolling over this one, there might not be anything left of the races to return to. Is it right? No. Is it going to happen? I have little doubt.
 
Organizers need to provide a certain amount of protection to the public and minimize the risk - much like zoos have fences to protect, air races and air shows need to ensure the public safety too. The problem could have an easy solution, when the airplanes turn towards the runway have the pylon slightly further away that during the high g turn when they are approaching there is a larger margin for error. When the planes turn away from the crowd, the crowd can be closer. Hmm, that was pretty simple.

I am still amazed the aircraft didn't explode - how much fuel do they carry?
 
I_Money said:
Organizers need to provide a certain amount of protection to the public and minimize the risk -
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IMO, they do. The crowd is about 1/4-1/2 mile away from the front stretch. I've been to Reno a number of times. I even got to see Bob Hoover do his thing there before the FAA screwed him over. Not a whole bunch more can be done about it. Aside from putting all the spectators on top of a hill 3 miles away to watch, or right in the middle of the circuit. Look at all the safety precautions that have been taken at NASCAR events. Tires still come off of cars and make their way up into the stands. You simply can't plan for every conceivable accident. With how fast these planes are going around the course, unless you put them in the middle of the whole circuit, there is no way to get them out of the line that a plane could conceivably fly. At some point, if something goes wrong, you're going to be in the path of an airplane. It's the nature of the game. No one wants to see this go away for good that really cares about it. Those that are going to cry about it, don't care however, and those are typically the ones with the loudest voice, and the deepest pockets.
 
I've sat in those box seats at Reno for the races, we used to go in together with a few other couples and get a box every year for the races. Never did I feel that I was "too close" or that in any way those seats were "unsafe". What happened was an AWFUL accident, but it's simply not possible to protect everyone from every possibility.

I take my life in my hands every time I get on the 465 loop around Indy! And *gasp* I often take my kids with me! Sure, I do what I can to stay safe, I drive reasonable speeds, I buckle up and I make sure my kids are appropriately secured too. But I know that in EVERYTHING I do, everything my kids do, there's risk in it.
 
I don't know how half these "safety" folks drive to work on a daily basis. Don't eat fish because of the bones, don't eat meat because of angry cows, you'd think you live in padded rooms..

The DRIVE to the Reno airport was 100,000 times more deadly than the show itself. Bad things happen occasionally. Let's ban something!!!

I've said it in threads like this before, I'll say it again - why don't we ban alcohol? It kills more people a year than airshows.. Why don't we ban cigarettes? It kills more people a year than airshows.. Should probably ban swimming in backyard pools as well, as I would venture a guess, more people die by drowning in a backyard pool a year than at airshows..

"Ooohh, someone died doing it. BAN it!" Reminds me of the Holy Grail.. "Burn her, burn her!"
 
Tram said:
The DRIVE to the Reno airport was 100,000 times more deadly than the show itself. Bad things happen occasionally. Let's ban something!!!
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You might want to look at that again, a lot of people have died at Reno in the last 5 years. Maybe 17? I was blasted on the AOPA forum in 2007 when I said the Reno races were too deadly and should be stopped. What NASCAR track in America kills 3.5 people a year?
 
fholbert said:
You might want to look at that again, a lot of people have died at Reno in the last 5 years. Maybe 17? I was blasted on the AOPA forum in 2007 when I said the Reno races were too deadly and should be stopped. What NASCAR track in America kills 3.5 people a year?
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There is a big difference between NASCAR and the air races. There is a whole other level when the crowd starts getting killed. If you look at the history of US auto racing, many many more people in the stands have been killed at Indy and other tracks than ever have been killed at Reno, or Mojave, or Cleveland for that matter.
 
Inverted said:
If you look at the history of US auto racing, many many more people in the stands have been killed at Indy and other tracks than ever have been killed at Reno, or Mojave, or Cleveland for that matter.
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Agreed if you look at all the races at all the tracks in the US combined, you're talking about 100's of races. Pick any last 5 year history for any 1 annual event. Where does Reno rank? My guess without doing he research... 10x worse than any NASCAR or Indy event.

Second question: Why is Reno getting worse and not better? Higher speeds? Age of Aircraft? Age of pilots?
 
fholbert said:
You might want to look at that again, a lot of people have died at Reno in the last 5 years. Maybe 17? I was blasted on the AOPA forum in 2007 when I said the Reno races were too deadly and should be stopped. What NASCAR track in America kills 3.5 people a year?
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Did I say a word about NASCAR?

How many people have died on the roads "towards" Reno in the last 5 years? I'll go out on a limb and say a tad over 17.

If you want to argue, let's argue with my exact statement, not the words you want to put in my mouth.
 
Tram said:
Did I say a word about NASCAR?
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Didn't say you did. Don't get your panties in a wad.

Tram said:
How many people have died on the roads "towards" Reno in the last 5 years? I'll go out on a limb and say a tad over 17.
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I'd like to see those numbers. Are you figuring per vehicle or per mile traveled? The internet is your friend, go for it!
 
fholbert said:
You might want to look at that again, a lot of people have died at Reno in the last 5 years. Maybe 17? I was blasted on the AOPA forum in 2007 when I said the Reno races were too deadly and should be stopped.
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If you think it's that dangerous, sounds like you shouldn't go to Reno.

If you don't go to Reno, is it that big of a problem that a bunch of consenting human beings watch airplanes fly a race hundreds of miles from you?
 
Nick said:
If you don't go to Reno, is it that big of a problem that a bunch of consenting human beings watch airplanes fly a race hundreds of miles from you?
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Those watching no, the ones being killed and injured yes. It's another black eye for aviation.
 
Safe or not isn't going to be the question. The determining factor is going to be money, via litigation. The sure-to-come lawsuits, and the money needed to either defend them or lost in judgement, will be the determining factor of whether Reno survives or not. If it becomes no longer economically viable to put the race on, from a financial risk standpoint, then there will be no more race.
 
fholbert said:
I'd like to see those numbers. Are you figuring per vehicle or per mile traveled? The internet is your friend, go for it!
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I think you're missing my point, but I'm bored, just put the kids down for a nap, so we can play.. ;)

Are you seriously trying to say that the streets of America are just as dangerous as the Reno Air Races?

In 2008, the most recent a quick search revealed shows 37,261 automobile deaths. I could only find 1 death at Reno in 2008, so we're talking 1:37,261 and that death was a participant, so maybe we're talking 0:37,261.

Ok, so in the last 5 years ~17 people have been killed at Reno. I'm not interested enough to find the automobile death tolls for the last 5 years, so I took 2000, 2005 and 2008, added them (122,716) and then took the average (40,905) and just made up a figure for the last five years - (40,905*5) 204,526 deaths on US streets in the last 5 years.. Ah, heck, the trend is decreasing, so I'll knock 25,000 off that.. So, ~179,526 deaths via US streets in the last 5 years..

17/179,526 = 10,560

1:10,560.. So for every 1 Reno death, 10,560 people die elsewhere in an automobile.. Should we ban cars?

While we are at it, roughly 443,000 people die a YEAR due to tobacco. We've lost what, 10 people to the Reno crash this year? 1:44,300. Ban tobacco?

Hmm.. How about alcohol, which accounts for around 75,000 deaths per year.. 1:7,500.. Ban alcohol?

We are losing ~555,261 people per year due to cars, alcohol and tobacco and they're all perfectly legal. We lose ~2 people a year to Reno and it's too dangerous.

Tell you what, you can keep the alcohol and tobacco, I'll keep my car and Reno. :)
 
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