Reno race crash in front of grandstands
- Thread starter MikeD
- Start date
Was only a matter of time.....
Goodbye Reno.
Story here:
http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-lawsuit-filed-reno-air-race-crash-181921040.html
Goodbye Reno.
Story here:
http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-lawsuit-filed-reno-air-race-crash-181921040.html
Last time I went I think I was 18. It's been a while, but I hope they do.
Salkadi
Well-Known Member
I found this website when looking up info on the Reno Air Races. They also do other aviation legal stuff. Seems to be pretty good.
http://www.aviationlawmonitor.com/2...-lawsuits-and-the-assumption-of-risk-defense/
moxiepilot
Well-Known Member
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/10/us/air-show-crash-findings/index.html?hpt=us_c2
Washington (CNN) -- The pilot of the P-51 Mustang that crashed at the Reno Air Races last September experienced overwhelming g-forces at the outset of the incident, and likely was incapacitated almost instantly, the National Transportation Safety Board said Tuesday.
The safety board said the pilot rapidly experienced more than 9 g's of acceleration, enough to decrease blood flow to his brain and render him unconscious. Photographs show the violent force deformed the plane's fuselage, forced the tail wheel to deploy and likely resulted in the plane's trim tab -- a piece of the tail -- to fly off, the safety board said.
The safety board released the details at a news conference in Reno, Nevada, not far from the crash site. Board chairwoman Deborah Hersman said it would be months before the board determines the probable cause of the accident.
Nonetheless, the board issued seven recommendations to make conditions safer at the next Reno air race, scheduled for September.
Foremost among the recommendations: the safety board said all of the unlimited class aircraft like the P-51 Mustang should be made to demonstrate their airworthiness at racing speeds before participating in a public air race.
The P-51 aircraft, The Galloping Ghost, was flying the fastest it had ever flown on the Reno course since the plane had been modified in 2009, the safety board said.
"This pilot, in this airplane, had never flown this fast, on this course," Hersman said.
Tuesday's news conference cast strong doubts on at least two widely-held beliefs about the accident.
The first was that 74-year-old pilot James "Jimmy" Leeward took last-minute actions to avoid hitting the crowded grandstands. The NTSB said that Leeward was likely incapacitated in the very first second of the accident sequence. The plane experienced g-forces exceeding the 9-g limit of the plane's accelerator, Hersman said. It is difficult for trained pilots to remain conscious with even 5 g's, Hersman said. "But more importantly is the rapid onset in less than a second of this increased load," she said.
Photos show the pilot is not visible in the canopy just two seconds into the accident sequence and is seen bent forward and leaning to the right in a later photo, Hersman said, indicating he lost consciousness early in the mishap.
The NTSB also cast doubt on speculation the loss of the plane's left trim tab caused the plane crash. Photos show the trim tab departing the plane six seconds into the accident sequence, meaning the break may have been a result of the mishap, not its cause.
Hersman noted the aircraft was highly modified to improve its speed. Its 37-foot wingspan had been reduced to 29 feet. In addition to other alterations, the right trim tab was locked in a faired position, in aligned with the tail wing.
Log books indicate a mechanic certified the plane had been tested and "throughout its normal range of speeds" and maneuvers. But that statement, the NTSB said, "does not necessarily mean that the airplane... was evaluated while operating at speeds it would encounter on the race course.
The plane was traveling about 530 mph when it veered off course, entered a steep climb maneuver and then spiraled down to a box seat area filled with spectators.
The NTSB recommended the National Air Racing Group Unlimited Division require aircraft owners in the unlimited class to provide an engineering evaluation that includes flight demonstrations and analysis prior to a race. It also recommended the group provide high g training to pilots and study whether pilots should wear g suits.
The NTSB recommended race sponsors evaluate the course to minimize potential conflicts with spectators. The NTSB said it found numerous discrepancies, errors and instances of outdated information" in Federal Aviation Administration documents that provide guidance for air races and course design. In one noteworthy instance, one document requires a 500-foot distance between spectators and the race course, while another requires 1,000 feet. At Reno, a 500-foot separation was used.
Hersman said a lot of work remains to be done before the safety board rules on the probable cause of the accident.
"This is an ongoing investigation," Hersman said. "What we're seeing is a lot of very heavy forces on this aircraft and this pilot and what we're working on now is what precipitated that."
The pilot and 10 spectators were killed in the Sept. 16, 2011, crash. In addition, more than 60 spectators were injured.
"We are not here to put a stop to air racing," Hersman said in a statement. "We are here to make it safer."
A representative of the Reno Air Racing Association did not immediately return a call for comment on the recommendations.
Washington (CNN) -- The pilot of the P-51 Mustang that crashed at the Reno Air Races last September experienced overwhelming g-forces at the outset of the incident, and likely was incapacitated almost instantly, the National Transportation Safety Board said Tuesday.
The safety board said the pilot rapidly experienced more than 9 g's of acceleration, enough to decrease blood flow to his brain and render him unconscious. Photographs show the violent force deformed the plane's fuselage, forced the tail wheel to deploy and likely resulted in the plane's trim tab -- a piece of the tail -- to fly off, the safety board said.
The safety board released the details at a news conference in Reno, Nevada, not far from the crash site. Board chairwoman Deborah Hersman said it would be months before the board determines the probable cause of the accident.
Nonetheless, the board issued seven recommendations to make conditions safer at the next Reno air race, scheduled for September.
Foremost among the recommendations: the safety board said all of the unlimited class aircraft like the P-51 Mustang should be made to demonstrate their airworthiness at racing speeds before participating in a public air race.
The P-51 aircraft, The Galloping Ghost, was flying the fastest it had ever flown on the Reno course since the plane had been modified in 2009, the safety board said.
"This pilot, in this airplane, had never flown this fast, on this course," Hersman said.
Tuesday's news conference cast strong doubts on at least two widely-held beliefs about the accident.
The first was that 74-year-old pilot James "Jimmy" Leeward took last-minute actions to avoid hitting the crowded grandstands. The NTSB said that Leeward was likely incapacitated in the very first second of the accident sequence. The plane experienced g-forces exceeding the 9-g limit of the plane's accelerator, Hersman said. It is difficult for trained pilots to remain conscious with even 5 g's, Hersman said. "But more importantly is the rapid onset in less than a second of this increased load," she said.
Photos show the pilot is not visible in the canopy just two seconds into the accident sequence and is seen bent forward and leaning to the right in a later photo, Hersman said, indicating he lost consciousness early in the mishap.
The NTSB also cast doubt on speculation the loss of the plane's left trim tab caused the plane crash. Photos show the trim tab departing the plane six seconds into the accident sequence, meaning the break may have been a result of the mishap, not its cause.
Hersman noted the aircraft was highly modified to improve its speed. Its 37-foot wingspan had been reduced to 29 feet. In addition to other alterations, the right trim tab was locked in a faired position, in aligned with the tail wing.
Log books indicate a mechanic certified the plane had been tested and "throughout its normal range of speeds" and maneuvers. But that statement, the NTSB said, "does not necessarily mean that the airplane... was evaluated while operating at speeds it would encounter on the race course.
The plane was traveling about 530 mph when it veered off course, entered a steep climb maneuver and then spiraled down to a box seat area filled with spectators.
The NTSB recommended the National Air Racing Group Unlimited Division require aircraft owners in the unlimited class to provide an engineering evaluation that includes flight demonstrations and analysis prior to a race. It also recommended the group provide high g training to pilots and study whether pilots should wear g suits.
The NTSB recommended race sponsors evaluate the course to minimize potential conflicts with spectators. The NTSB said it found numerous discrepancies, errors and instances of outdated information" in Federal Aviation Administration documents that provide guidance for air races and course design. In one noteworthy instance, one document requires a 500-foot distance between spectators and the race course, while another requires 1,000 feet. At Reno, a 500-foot separation was used.
Hersman said a lot of work remains to be done before the safety board rules on the probable cause of the accident.
"This is an ongoing investigation," Hersman said. "What we're seeing is a lot of very heavy forces on this aircraft and this pilot and what we're working on now is what precipitated that."
The pilot and 10 spectators were killed in the Sept. 16, 2011, crash. In addition, more than 60 spectators were injured.
"We are not here to put a stop to air racing," Hersman said in a statement. "We are here to make it safer."
A representative of the Reno Air Racing Association did not immediately return a call for comment on the recommendations.
HVYMETALDRVR
Well-Known Member
thanks for posting and a good read. I recently met someone who lost his friend in that accident and his brother is still recovering from massive injuries... we can't change the past I suppose, just try to improve the future... 
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Can't see the value of a G-suit in that situation. Might have kept him conscious to watch the world rise up to smite him...
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Interesting that they are turning focus AWAY from the trim tab.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
I'm having a hard time with this instantaneous G-LOC explanation. It had to been well over 9... If you knew the airplane's velocity and could estimate the radius of the pitch-up, with some fancy math you could get a G force estimate.
It's the duration of the G force that has the greatest affect on the pilot's consciousness. Reviewing the video, the airplane became unloaded rather quickly after that initial pitch up. I read somewhere that they are pulling somewhere around +5G in the turns alone. That's a long time to be sustaining +5, so Jimmy had to be in pretty good shape with a tolerance built up. From my own experience and what I've heard from others, a quick +9 isn't going to put you to sleep. Although the lack of being to anticipate the pull might have something to do with it.
It's the duration of the G force that has the greatest affect on the pilot's consciousness. Reviewing the video, the airplane became unloaded rather quickly after that initial pitch up. I read somewhere that they are pulling somewhere around +5G in the turns alone. That's a long time to be sustaining +5, so Jimmy had to be in pretty good shape with a tolerance built up. From my own experience and what I've heard from others, a quick +9 isn't going to put you to sleep. Although the lack of being to anticipate the pull might have something to do with it.
The Fez
Analog Millennial
Rapid onset of G's of any magnitude will have physiological results. I'm not concerned as much with conciousness as I am with incapacitation in this case. The pilot may very well have been conscious but was dazed and disoriented from the rapid pitch up. The lack of being able to anticipate the pull is a huge factor. I used to gray out a bit when I flew with a certain IP back in pilot training when he'd yank in around 4 G's while I was reviewing my line up card. If the pilot experienced an acceleration from 1 to 9+ G's in less than a second or two, there's no doubt in my mind that he was very disoriented at the very least.
This.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
Pure speculation on my part but I'm still looking at mechanical failure of the pitch trim system. I know they're looking away from the tab itself. I doubt we will ever know for sure.
Sent from 1865 by telegraph....
Sent from 1865 by telegraph....
Unfotunately, the NTSB says this:
Which places the rapid G onset prior to the trim tab, in their view. Making me wonder what caused the rapid G onset from 5-ish to over 9 that would then cause the tab to break. Besides a problem with the trim system (or any other material failure, which doesn't seem to be the case), any other rapid onset would have to have been pilot induced.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
Something caused the tab to separate from the otherwise intact airplane.
Sent from 1865 by telegraph....
Sent from 1865 by telegraph....
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
Say what "The plane experienced g-forces exceeding the 9-g limit of the plane's accelerator, Hersman said."