"Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Career

[surreal1221]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

Reported. . .I thought it was working itself out as well.

I don't know. . .your place obviously . . .but sometimes harsh words need to be used when it's quite clear he isn't getting the reason and logic of the countering statements. Especially when it is in-regards to service members, no matter how poor, ignorant, or whatever they are; that type of language is never warranted.

I don't think I told you I love you this week. Sorry, I do love you.

 

[derg]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

I love you too man, sorry I haven't sent flowers recently.

FYI, there's an "off forum" discussion taking place as well.

 

[Ian_J]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

Reported. . .I thought it was working itself out as well.

I don't know. . .your place obviously . . .but sometimes harsh words need to be used when it's quite clear he isn't getting the reason and logic of the countering statements. Especially when it is in-regards to service members, no matter how poor, ignorant, or whatever they are; that type of language is never warranted.

I don't think I told you I love you this week. Sorry, I do love you.

Let me discuss it with him. I can remain calm and rational.

 

[thehobbit]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

I'll address your questions once you've addressed mine.

I served in the airforce from 04sep01 to 03sep2005 as an electrical and environmental systems mechanic and after that with the dod for a year. the dumbest thing I've ever done was quit that job and I kick myself everyday for doing so. I got out because their was no benefit for me to stay in. I received top notch training, and made some excellent friends but I don't believe in that JFK speech " ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country". if i had stayed in i would have ended up in Iraq serving in someone else's war. It is also kind of hard to re-up when your handed a job with three times the pay and a third less work load.

 

[Malko]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

Yes poverty is a complex issue as some people have made whole careers out of studying it. I think the biggest problem with poverty in America is people have kids too young, buying things they don't need, and not investing in their education. I've seen people buy a brand new Ford f350 dual double cab with all the bells and whistles, while renting a home, going out two, three nights a week, not spending any money on education then doing all of that on borrowed money when they should just keep their nose to the grind stone. I've meet people who grew up with out running water or electricity for a large portion of their life and how did they better themselves? They joined the military. I say the Army enlisted is for the poor, stupid, ignorant, or anybody trying to get a leg up. It is kind of sad people have to put their lives and life on the line to get ahead.

.

There fixed a few things for you. You weren't in the Army by chance were you?

As for your comment about enlisted Army (military) members being stupid, ignorant, trying to get a leg up....Well that speaks for itself. Have you served in the Army or any branch of the service? I will go out on a limb and say no. The reason I say that is that no member serving in any branch would make that kind of comment about his or her fellow sailors, soldiers, airmen, or infantrymen.

If people are trying to get a leg up would that be smart instead of stupid or ignorant?

 

[Ian_J]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

I served in the airforce from 04sep01 to 03sep2005 as an electrical and environmental systems mechanic and after that with the dod for a year. the dumbest thing I've ever done was quit that job and I kick myself everyday for doing so. I got out because their was no benefit for to stay in. I received top notch training, and made some excellent friends but I don't believe in that JFK speech " ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country". if i had stayed in i would have ended up in Iraq serving in someone else's war. It is also kind of hard to re-up when your handed a job with three times the pay and a third less work load.

Thanks - I'll be happy to discuss this with you.

First you have to realize how offensive this statement is:

let me rephrase that,
the military is for the poor, or the stupid, or the ignorant, or anybody trying to get a leg up.

Minus the get a leg up part, this is an inaccurate portrayal of the military. Saying everyone fits into one of those categories is saying that most military service people come from poor backgrounds, are stupid, or are ignorant. Is this really what you saw in the AF?

when you enlisted in the army what did you sign up for?

Do you mean why did I sign up, or for what branch did I sign up? (Side note: work on those writing skills - very important in today's competitive world.)

The reason I signed up is because I wanted to take charge of my own life and get out from under my parent's rules and checkbook.

The branch I signed up for was the Infantry.

after you initial enlistment what did you do?

I reenlisted.

I see you went from enlisted to officer so are you not trying to better yourself? also you signed up to fly helicopters, why? Because it was probably thrilling, a challenge, you get paid to do something you enjoy,

I certainly was trying to better myself.

and on the outside leads to a very well paid career.

No, no it doesn't. Not the helicopter part, anyway. I don't fly anymore.

why would you only serve for 15 years when just one more enlistment you could retire? I read in some of your blogs you like being able to see your wife every night.

Officers do not reenlist, they serve indefinitely until they resign. I served 15 calendar years but am credited with 12 years of service due to ROTC after my enlisted time. After all that time I felt it was my time to move on, and yes, I like to see my wife every night.

Another thing and I'm not trying to bash you here but If their wasn't a war going on would you have finished your time to receive retirement?

That's a moot point. I served a tour in Afghanistan and Iraq already. The large amount of time away from home certainly was factored in my decision to leave.


So, having answered your questions I have to wonder what they had to do with your original point?

 

[surreal1221]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

Oh great - he said he was in the Air Force.

:banghead:

Not all of us hold such opinions guys, please don't crucify me along side this guy.

 

[thehobbit]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

Thanks - I'll be happy to discuss this with you.

First you have to realize how offensive this statement is:



Minus the get a leg up part, this is an inaccurate portrayal of the military. Saying everyone fits into one of those categories is saying that most military service people come from poor backgrounds, are stupid, or are ignorant. Is this really what you saw in the AF?

A majority of the people I met in the AF did fit one of the categories. they joined because their options in the civilian world didn't compare to the ones in the military. then when they are single and join they get married, have kids and now don't have the means of leaving and a career starts to look more appealing. I can only think of two people in my shop of 24 who were single and re-enlisted. The military prevents you from leaving because it is not economical, health care and housing is too much for a first time enlisted to move on to the civilian world.

Do you mean why did I sign up, or for what branch did I sign up? (Side note: work on those writing skills - very important in today's competitive world.)
I meant what did you sign up for, I knew what branch by specifying the army.

The reason I signed up is because I wanted to take charge of my own life and get out from under my parent's rules and checkbook.

The branch I signed up for was the Infantry.



I reenlisted.



I certainly was trying to better myself.



No, no it doesn't. Not the helicopter part, anyway. I don't fly anymore.



Officers do not reenlist, they serve indefinitely until they resign. I served 15 calendar years but am credited with 12 years of service due to ROTC after my enlisted time. After all that time I felt it was my time to move on, and yes, I like to see my wife every night.

Yes officers serve indefinitely until they resign after their initial enlistment but they do reenlist and sign a contract for 4 or 6 or 8 years because they have bonuses and such tied to those contracts. If they quit before the contract is up they have to pay some of those bonuses back.


That's a moot point. I served a tour in Afghanistan and Iraq already. The large amount of time away from home certainly was factored in my decision to leave.

I'm not calling you a coward by saying what I said. What I'm is if their wasn't a war going on would you have stayed in because the only place that I can think of being sent to where you can't take you wife is Korea. Every where else you can take your family with you so I say again would you stay in if their wasn't a war going on and you weren't stationed in Korea?

So, having answered your questions I have to wonder what they had to do with your original point?

I don't know what the point was I really don't.

 

[Rocketman99]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

Yes officers serve indefinitely until they resign after their initial enlistment but they do reenlist and sign a contract for 4 or 6 or 8 years because they have bonuses and such tied to those contracts. If they quit before the contract is up they have to pay some of those bonuses back.

I just wanted to chime in on this particular point. As an officer you serve indefinitely until your committment is up, or you get passed over for promotion a number of times. The committments are incurred for things like original commission, source of commission, pilot training, schooling, etc. Once you have served out the required amount of years for that you can put in your walking papers and head out the door.

There are also some options for "contracts" as you put it for staying in. They are not a requirment and usually entail a heft monetary bonus for taking it. They are not required to continue serving and not all people who choose to serve an additional few years take the bonuses. Yes, if you try to leave before then you incur penalties or are just plain not allowed to leave.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

I'm not responding to this... uneducated yet opinionated individual... any more.

Anyhow... MOVING ALONG.

In keeping with the trend of fighting for better pay and work at the Regional airlines in this country, we can all realize a few things.

We're the new major airlines. If it costs more, it's going to be phased out in time. Unfortunately for pilots at all levels, the Legacy airlines are soon to become the stuff of memories.

The current "Regional" airlines of today are the future for all of us.... tell your fellow aviators and all the aspiring hopefuls out there. Get the truth out.

Coincidentally, American Eagle pilots are picketing AMR headquarter on September 12th.

It would seem that management has absolutely no intent of improving pilot compensation or rates of pay in the latest contract amendment.

Eagle pilots will be at the tip of the spear on this one. Granted the timing is coincidental, but as far as I know no other pilot groups in the industry are standing up to demand a pay increase at present.

If you'd like to lend your support, I'm sure it would be welcome.

 

[Trip7]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

We're the new major airlines. If it costs more, it's going to be phased out in time. Unfortunately for pilots at all levels, the Legacy airlines are soon to become the stuff of memories.

The current "Regional" airlines of today are the future for all of us.... tell your fellow aviators and all the aspiring hopefuls out there. Get the truth out.

I respectfully disagree. Times are tough out there right now, but things will get better. No need for the "legacy airlines are going to disappear" doom and gloom.

My prediction, the industry will be at a standstill for 5 years then we'll be right back where we were a few months ago, everybody hiring like gangbusters.

If age 65 never went thru we'd all be singing quite a different tune right now.

Age 65 stopped the movement, fuel prices started the furloughs.

 

[NJA_Capt]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

My prediction, the industry will be at a standstill for 5 years then we'll be right back where we were a few months ago, everybody hiring like gangbusters.

If age 65 never went thru we'd all be singing quite a different tune right now.

You R-E-A-L-L-Y need to take those blinders off. The US major airlines will NEVER regain the status they once had. Nor will they ever see the pay level that they once enjoyed and still deserve. 5 years from now you are more much more likely to see foreign carriers flying routes in the US, and regionals will be the only US carriers.

Congrats to all the Pilot Mills, they got their wish. Everyone gets to fly a shiny jet at 500 hours....But very few newhires will ever see mid level 6 figures in a legacy widebody.

Irreparable damage has been done to the legacies in the last 15 years and don't start with the age 65 garbage. Don't forget it added 5 years to your career too. Most of those guys didn't even get established in this career until they were in their 30s. You guys starting in your 20s will be (maybe) spending 10 more years in the seat than they did. Unfortunately, your lifetime earnings will likely be less.

 

[jtrain609]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

I respectfully disagree. Times are tough out there right now, but things will get better. No need for the "legacy airlines are going to disappear" doom and gloom.

My prediction, the industry will be at a standstill for 5 years then we'll be right back where we were a few months ago, everybody hiring like gangbusters.

If age 65 never went thru we'd all be singing quite a different tune right now.

Age 65 stopped the movement, fuel prices started the furloughs.

you're not getting it.

there is ZERO reason for legacy carriers to pay what they do when regional pilots can get the same job done with the same safety record for less money. if you think there's a bit of difference between what I do on a daily basis and what a cal 737 FO does on a daily basis are any different, then <you're mistaken> (edited)

the mainline carriers will continue to errode scope and will throw a few bones to their pilot groups to do so, but within 10 years you'll see international flying at mainline, and all 120 seat and below flying at regionals for pennies on the dollar.

we're already doing it, have proved it works and now that the pandoras box is open, we're all hosed. capitalism will force our prices down until people start dying, which we won't let happen because we die too, and this career will be gone.

the paradigm you're working within is flawed, and your career will probaly end at acey. the sooner you realize this the better.

you will not move on

you will not make big money

you will fly big airplanes

this is, to me, the reality of looking forward save for a very, very, very fortunate few, and I hate to say it, but you're not good enough to make it, and i'm probably not either. folks here who are awesome guys and have 3000 hours of tpic, a clean record and a college degree can't buy a job at mainline. how are you better than them?

 

[SteveC]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

[side note]

Ian, thanks for giving an excellent example of the right way to handle a hot-button type topic. I appreciate how you almost always post in a professional manner.

[/s.n.]

 

[Trip7]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

You R-E-A-L-L-Y need to take those blinders off. The US major airlines will NEVER regain the status they once had. Nor will they ever see the pay level that they once enjoyed and still deserve. 5 years from now you are more much more likely to see foreign carriers flying routes in the US, and regionals will be the only US carriers.

Congrats to all the Pilot Mills, they got their wish. Everyone gets to fly a shiny jet at 500 hours....But very few newhires will ever see mid level 6 figures in a legacy widebody.

Irreparable damage has been done to the legacies in the last 15 years and don't start with the age 65 garbage. Don't forget it added 5 years to your career too. Most of those guys didn't even get established in this career until they were in their 30s. You guys starting in your 20s will be (maybe) spending 10 more years in the seat than they did. Unfortunately, your lifetime earnings will likely be less.

Never is a very strong word to use. Only time will tell. When I'm 65 I'll let you know how it went

 

[Seggy]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

I love Ian and Kristen.

 

[kellwolf]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

I see you went from enlisted to officer so are you not trying to better yourself?

This is kinda silly to use this as part of how you're basically "talking down" about enlisted guys. I know I try to better myself every damn day. Is that a bad thing? Maybe I shoulda just joined the military......


I have to agree with Firebird on the regionals as the "new majors." Why was Delta hiring? Expanding international operations. Where was the domestic stuff going? Regionals. Look no further than Northwest airlines as well. What were once DC-9 and A319 routes are now flown by E175s, CRJ-900s and even -200s in some cases. United is shrinking mainline but EXPANDING regionals. I don't think the legacies will disappear, but they sure ain't gonna be the state they were in their history. Don't be fooled by the hiring "boom" we experienced for a little more than a year. I think that was a fluke, honestly, compounded by retirements/buy outs offered in money saving attempts. Age 65 did it's job as a stop-gap, though. FedEx never even thought about hiring again, and from what some of my friends over there tell me, it's gonna be a lot longer than 5 years before they do.....

 

[Trip7]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

you're not getting it.

there is ZERO reason for legacy carriers to pay what they do when regional pilots can get the same job done with the same safety record for less money. if you think there's a bit of difference between what I do on a daily basis and what a cal 737 FO does on a daily basis are any different, then <you're mistaken> (edited)

the mainline carriers will continue to errode scope and will throw a few bones to their pilot groups to do so, but within 10 years you'll see international flying at mainline, and all 120 seat and below flying at regionals for pennies on the dollar.

we're already doing it, have proved it works and now that the pandoras box is open, we're all hosed. capitalism will force our prices down until people start dying, which we won't let happen because we die too, and this career will be gone.

Wow....

the paradigm you're working within is flawed, and your career will probaly end at acey. the sooner you realize this the better.

you will not move on

you will not make big money

you will fly big airplanes

Right...

this is, to me, the reality of looking forward save for a very, very, very fortunate few

No, the reality of it is you are being highly pessimistic...you guys put into your head that the legacy airlines is some big impossibility...

I hate to say it, but you're not good enough to make it, and i'm probably not either.

Right....

folks here who are awesome guys and have 3000 hours of tpic, a clean record and a college degree can't buy a job at mainline. how are you better than them?

Who you know will get you the job, what you know will keep you there...its called networking

 

[Ian_J]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

I don't know what the point was I really don't.

Based off this statement, let's give this guy a break.

 

[Ian_J]

Re: "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest Of Your Ca

I love Ian and Kristen.

We love Seggy. We would adopt him, but only if there were enough hot chicks here for him.