FlyChicaga
Vintage Restoration
When we do this, we have to wear a taser-type device that goes in our pocket. If we get shot it sends a massive jolt down your leg that cripples you. It gets the point across...
Rant
- Thread starter NovemberEcho
- Start date
When we do this, we have to wear a taser-type device that goes in our pocket. If we get shot it sends a massive jolt down your leg that cripples you. It gets the point across...
Yeah. Collaboration between Airbus and Loft. I haven’t had a chance to try it out yet.
ERfly
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how it would go with primary students, but I can tell you from my experience that THE ABSOLUTE WORST instructors I've ever had have been retired guys teaching in the simulator. Bonus points if they never worked for the actual company they're training pilots for. Horrible, horrible experiences!
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
Agreed. The opposite side of that is line guys teaching technique in the sim. I have seen it burn new students.
In initial training at my new company, the best instructor I had never worked for us. But he knew the book very well, and taught us exactly what was in the book. But that's not the usual case I feel.
jrh
Well-Known Member
Has the training environment gotten any more or less restrictive in recent years with regard to where/when a lesson can fly and how much supervision or approval is required?
When I was teaching full time I was mostly a one man show and there was a culture of pushing limits, in what I consider to be a good, healthy way. I'd take students to grass strips, 30 foot wide private strips, fly in actual weather, nothing super low, but maybe 500-1 kind of weather. We'd do spin training with student pilots, fly cross countries late into the night, like past midnight, get Special VFR clearances for pattern work, and on and on. I followed a syllabus and provided good instruction while packing in as much adventure as I could.
It seems like a lot of that was going away about the time I got out of teaching 14 years ago. I get it, the airplanes are more expensive than ever and scale of flight schools is bigger and bigger. Risk management has to be taken seriously. It sounds so scripted and tame now. Getting special approval to do anything out of the ordinary, can't fly even instrument students when it's less than 2000-3, etc.
I think those adventures taught me a lot as an instructor. Whatever the case, they sure were fun, and I rarely felt like I was robotically doing the same maneuvers in VFR weather all the time.
When I was teaching full time I was mostly a one man show and there was a culture of pushing limits, in what I consider to be a good, healthy way. I'd take students to grass strips, 30 foot wide private strips, fly in actual weather, nothing super low, but maybe 500-1 kind of weather. We'd do spin training with student pilots, fly cross countries late into the night, like past midnight, get Special VFR clearances for pattern work, and on and on. I followed a syllabus and provided good instruction while packing in as much adventure as I could.
It seems like a lot of that was going away about the time I got out of teaching 14 years ago. I get it, the airplanes are more expensive than ever and scale of flight schools is bigger and bigger. Risk management has to be taken seriously. It sounds so scripted and tame now. Getting special approval to do anything out of the ordinary, can't fly even instrument students when it's less than 2000-3, etc.
I think those adventures taught me a lot as an instructor. Whatever the case, they sure were fun, and I rarely felt like I was robotically doing the same maneuvers in VFR weather all the time.
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
I’m here til 430 today but don’t know what position I’ll be working. What’s your callsign so I can get the holding pattern ready?
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
Fixtur
Dunning-Kruger Expert
YOURE NOT MY REAL DAD!
ERfly
Well-Known Member
I also agree with this statement!
The MD-11 guys were all spot on and it was probably the most standardized training I've ever received (with ONE exception...see my post above about old guys as sim instructors).
The 767 was nearly ALL tech-cedure! Frustrating as all hell!
"When are you going to do your T-Brief?"
"When they put it in the book."
NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
Ok wtf guys. I’ve been bitching to @killbilly for the past couple weeks about this but since when did “climb via except maintain x thousand” become a complicated procedure? I got guys off TEB levelling off at 2000 when told maintain 6000, I got guys off MMU asking what heading I want them to fly on the Morristown 7. This has come beyond ridiculous .
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
Go off on them. I want you to make one of those NY ATC youtube clips.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
My observations:
[A] <2016:
Pilots coming to the regionals had professional experience outside 121, and flew with senior CAs.
[B] 2016-2020:
Pilots coming to the regionals were largely longer-term flight instructors, but flew exclusively with senior CAs from batch A.
[C] 2020-2023:
Pilots coming to the regionals were a mix of ATP fast track types and longer-term instructors, who flew with a mix of CAs from batches A and B.
[D] 2023:
Pilots coming to the regionals are often ATP fast track types or low-time instructors, and they've flown mostly with B and C
[E] >= 2024:
Pilots coming to the regionals are almost solely ATP fast track types or low-time instructors, and they've flown almost exclusively with C and D.
Batches C and D have been forced to upgrade from the left seat to the right seat right at 975 hours (or whatever the minimum is). Training and standards, at my shop, have kept the standards in a decent place, but students increasingly rely on gouge and sheppard air. Batches D and E, I'm seeing a lot of folks who are lacking what I would consider to be basic systems knowledge, or integration of that knowledge. A lot of the ancillary knowledge like meteorology, aviation physiology, and aerodynamics seem to be less understood than in times past.
IFR knowledge, understanding of TERPS criteria, minima and how they apply are also a bit lacking. I'm surprised how many times we get "Maintain 280 or greater" when we're doing 300 and the FO reaches up to slow us down to 280. Every speed reduction we get, I feel like the latest crop will go full boards. On the STAR and the airplane is 290 eight miles from a fix to cross at 280? Full boards.
Overall, though—with a few notable exceptions—they're still performing to standard. At least on my equipment, climb/climb via/descend/descend via (in the US) is well understood. However, with each "generation" from the above, a lot of cultural knowledge is lost, and a lot of the "why." Technique is increasingly trained as procedure, and I get the "TL;DR" vibe when I mention things deeper in manuals.
Who knows what the future holds.
(edited: Apparently xenforo got real confused that I had [ b ] bolded
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
I've never been to TEB, what SID and Runway specifically?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
My observations:
[A] <2016:
Pilots coming to the regionals had professional experience outside 121, and flew with senior CAs.
[B] 2016-2020:
Pilots coming to the regionals were largely longer-term flight instructors, but flew exclusively with senior CAs from batch A.
[C] 2020-2023:
Pilots coming to the regionals were a mix of ATP fast track types and longer-term instructors, who flew with a mix of CAs from batches A and B.
[D] 2023:
Pilots coming to the regionals are often ATP fast track types or low-time instructors, and they've flown mostly with B and C
[E] >= 2024:
Pilots coming to the regionals are almost solely ATP fast track types or low-time instructors, and they've flown almost exclusively with C and D.
Batches C and D have been forced to upgrade from the left seat to the right seat right at 975 hours (or whatever the minimum is). Training and standards, at my shop, have kept the standards in a decent place, but students increasingly rely on gouge and sheppard air. Batches D and E, I'm seeing a lot of folks who are lacking what I would consider to be basic systems knowledge, or integration of that knowledge. A lot of the ancillary knowledge like meteorology, aviation physiology, and aerodynamics seem to be less understood than in times past.
IFR knowledge, understanding of TERPS criteria, minima and how they apply are also a bit lacking. I'm surprised how many times we get "Maintain 280 or greater" when we're doing 300 and the FO reaches up to slow us down to 280. Every speed reduction we get, I feel like the latest crop will go full boards. On the STAR and the airplane is 290 eight miles from a fix to cross at 280? Full boards.
Overall, though—with a few notable exceptions—they're still performing to standard. At least on my equipment, climb/climb via/descend/descend via (in the US) is well understood. However, with each "generation" from the above, a lot of cultural knowledge is lost, and a lot of the "why." Technique is increasingly trained as procedure, and I get the "TL;DR" vibe when I mention things deeper in manuals.
Who knows what the future holds.
(edited: Apparently xenforo got real confused that I had [ b ] bolded
Saved me from writing the exact same breakdown. Thank you, spot on!
Skåning
Well-Known Member
It’s no better at mainline. That describes ~75% of the FOs I fly with too. SMH. The box pops up with “drag required” and they immediately grab a fist full of speed brake.
Well hold up, do the mental 3/1 math. We’re fine, the Guppy just sucks. I think very few do any mental math and just “Jesus take the wheel” with the VNAV.
Then we level and the engines roar up. Cmon.