Question about the Borg (aka Delta) and NWA, AS, etc...

TallFlyer

Well-Known Member
So now that Delta own NWA, how long will it take them to actually merge the pilot groups and what is that going to look like (747s in Delta colors?).

A little bit closer to home (for me anyway), if Delta acquires Alaska what happens to the unique character of Alaska's intra-Alaska flying?
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
So now that Delta own NWA, how long will it take them to actually merge the pilot groups and what is that going to look like (747s in Delta colors?).

A little bit closer to home (for me anyway), if Delta acquires Alaska what happens to the unique character of Alaska's intra-Alaska flying?
Disclaimer - I am not speaking on behalf of Delta as I uhhh, work for Southernjets International

But the first 747 in the Delta livery, hear is debuting early next month.

Direct DAL on NWA pilot negotiations failed so it's on to the arbitrators as far as I've heard.

A little bit closer to home (for me anyway), if Delta acquires Alaska what happens to the unique character of Alaska's intra-Alaska flying?
I'm clueless! Just a rumor at this point.
 

WalterSobchak

Well-Known Member
December 12th the first 747-400 will operate a revenue flight in Delta colors from Detroit to Tokyo. Its in the shop now.
 

Velocipede

New Member
Does anyone actually see a Delta-Alaska acquisition as viable?
Absolutely. Delta's state goal is to be the #1 airline in LAX. They've also recently announced lots of new international flying from SLC.

What do you need to do that? FEED, and in particular, West Coast Feed.

Where are they going to get it? Alaska.

Equipment problems...nope all Boeings. And they could buy EVERY outstanding share of Alaska stock with the money ALASKA has in the bank and get about $450M in change.

What else do you get? Hawaii, Mexico (little old Alaska carries 8% of ALL US traffic in Mexico), Canada, 1500 current/qualified pilots, a big hubs at SEA and PDX. 116 of the newest Boeing 737s around and 25 more coming down the line.

Sure, they may eventually abandon the flying in the state of Alaska, but my guess is Air Group managers have an answer for that already. Take the buyout money and get some E190/195s for Horizon to fly to fill the gap.

Yeah, actually a Delta/Alaska merger is probably the next thing on the horizon.
 

Trip7

Well-Known Member
Sure, they may eventually abandon the flying in the state of Alaska, but my guess is Air Group managers have an answer for that already. Take the buyout money and get some E190/195s for Horizon to fly to fill the gap.
I think they're already doing that but its not Horizon....
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
Absolutely. Delta's state goal is to be the #1 airline in LAX. They've also recently announced lots of new international flying from SLC.

What do you need to do that? FEED, and in particular, West Coast Feed.

Where are they going to get it? Alaska.

Equipment problems...nope all Boeings. And they could buy EVERY outstanding share of Alaska stock with the money ALASKA has in the bank and get about $450M in change.

What else do you get? Hawaii, Mexico (little old Alaska carries 8% of ALL US traffic in Mexico), Canada, 1500 current/qualified pilots, a big hubs at SEA and PDX. 116 of the newest Boeing 737s around and 25 more coming down the line.

Sure, they may eventually abandon the flying in the state of Alaska, but my guess is Air Group managers have an answer for that already. Take the buyout money and get some E190/195s for Horizon to fly to fill the gap.

Yeah, actually a Delta/Alaska merger is probably the next thing on the horizon.
I doubt it up here. None of those airplanes would be able to work up here. THey'd make even less money. The 737 is a boondoggle as is, however, trying to run ERJs into PAWG, and PAPG seems unlikely. They already can't leave Petersburg with a full load (not that likely, but it happens sometimes), and an E190 couldn't operate comfortably into Pete either (6000', ghetto approach, etc.). What they really need to do is get more q 400s, and run south east with those. That'd be the big money. As for the Anchorage to Seattle runs, I've never been on an Alaska flight that wasn't two seats from capacity, same with the Hawaii runs. What's screwing them is things like the 737 into Kodiak, the 737 into Bethel, and the myriad runs down in south east in 737s. Ketchikan doesn't have the traffic for a 737 if Alaska isn't doing freight (and chances are they won't be doing freight for very long, the combi's sucked).
 

Velocipede

New Member
I doubt it up here. None of those airplanes would be able to work up here. THey'd make even less money. The 737 is a boondoggle as is, however, trying to run ERJs into PAWG, and PAPG seems unlikely.
The problem with you is your Cessna experience in SW doesn't translate to experience in our operation. We're not talking ERJs, we're talking 100 seat Ejets. A whole different animal. If I was talking ERJs, perhaps you'd have a point.

They already can't leave Petersburg with a full load (not that likely, but it happens sometimes), and an E190 couldn't operate comfortably into Pete either (6000', ghetto approach, etc.). What they really need to do is get more q 400s, and run south east with those. That'd be the big money.
I will agree that Q400s would be big moneymakers. So how much time do you have in E190s that you can make statements about their performance. B6 flew on from Buffalo to ANC to bring Sarah Palin home. You don't think that an E190/195 outfitted with RNP gear couldn't do the job a 737 would.

As for the Anchorage to Seattle runs, I've never been on an Alaska flight that wasn't two seats from capacity, same with the Hawaii runs. What's screwing them is things like the 737 into Kodiak, the 737 into Bethel, and the myriad runs down in south east in 737s.
So, what's your point? You don't think by adding frequency in an E190 operation they couldn't pick up the slack? And if Delta did buy Alaska, I'm pretty sure they would keep the Hawaii service. Believe me, we make plenty of money flying the 737 into Kodiak, Bethel and all the SE towns. Do you even know the airports that are covered by EAS money? Here's your quiz...name them. I can.

Ketchikan doesn't have the traffic for a 737 if Alaska isn't doing freight (and chances are they won't be doing freight for very long, the combi's sucked).
You must be kidding. Summer...cruise ships. Sportsmen from April to September. Don't forget the only other way to get to KTN is by ferry. You don't think AAG couldn't set up an E190 operation to take the flying if Delta decided to pull our jets out?
 

TallFlyer

Well-Known Member
So in your scenario of Delta buying AAG's 737 operation and AAG rebuilding with E190s, etc, do you think that AAG weould try and retain the rights to the "Alaska Airlines" name somehow or would that have to be sold along with the certificate?
 

Velocipede

New Member
Well, I think it would go. But they could just expand the service under the Horizon name. Or call the jets "Alaska Horizon" or something along those lines.
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
The problem with you is your Cessna experience in SW doesn't translate to experience in our operation. We're not talking ERJs, we're talking 100 seat Ejets. A whole different animal. If I was talking ERJs, perhaps you'd have a point.



I will agree that Q400s would be big moneymakers. So how much time do you have in E190s that you can make statements about their performance. B6 flew on from Buffalo to ANC to bring Sarah Palin home. You don't think that an E190/195 outfitted with RNP gear couldn't do the job a 737 would.



So, what's your point? You don't think by adding frequency in an E190 operation they couldn't pick up the slack? And if Delta did buy Alaska, I'm pretty sure they would keep the Hawaii service. Believe me, we make plenty of money flying the 737 into Kodiak, Bethel and all the SE towns. Do you even know the airports that are covered by EAS money? Here's your quiz...name them. I can.



You must be kidding. Summer...cruise ships. Sportsmen from April to September. Don't forget the only other way to get to KTN is by ferry. You don't think AAG couldn't set up an E190 operation to take the flying if Delta decided to pull our jets out?
Where do I start. If E190s don't work on legs that are 30 minutes or less in the states, why the hell are they going to work on legs that are 30 mins or less in Alaska? I'm sure you make money on those runs, and by the way, I can name them. (Cordova, Yakutat, Juneau, Sitka, Ketchikan, Wrangell, Petersburg) I used to fly down there. BTW, your lower 48 experience does not translate to Alaska experience, so don't try to push RJs down our throat when they don't work here or there. Q400s, B1900s, Saabs, and the like may work well, but don't count on jets for these short runs. BTW, the sportsmen and tourists aren't going Ketch nearly as much any more, the economy sucks too much, so update your info.

As for performance statements about E190s, look online, I was interested in what your post said, so I looked up the E190s performance data, and realized that Wrg, and PSG are too short for em with a decent load. Plus, its not about the RNP, its about the actual characteristics of the airplane. It takes too much ground to get airborne. If you want to be an ass, fine, but using personal attacks against someone who is here, and now in Alaska on the ground looking at what happens, that's just ignorant. I flew for ACE last winter, and went down to south east 3 days a week, I've been to all the airports AK air goes into, and some that they don't, and believe me, I know this market, and I understand how this stuff works. The conditions are not condusive to RJ operations, otherwise Frontier or Era would have bought them already. Use your head.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
That's cool, man!

You've just got to hook me up with my "Borg Name".

Dougucious?
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
God help me for defending Velo but...

Where do I start. If E190s don't work on legs that are 30 minutes or less in the states, why the hell are they going to work on legs that are 30 mins or less in Alaska?
Airways runs 190s on 30 minute legs all the time. It seems to be working out just fine for them.

BTW, your lower 48 experience does not translate to Alaska experience, so don't try to push RJs down our throat when they don't work here or there.
I'm thinking Velo has plenty of AK time. In fact, I'm guessing he's been doing it a bit longer than you have.

The conditions are not condusive to RJ operations, otherwise Frontier or Era would have bought them already. Use your head.
And here's where your argument completely dies. The 190/195 is NOT an RJ. Simply because it's a natural progression from the 170 doesn't make it fit that category. The economics of a 100+ seat jet and a 70/75/86 seat jet are totally different. Now, would they have issues on some of the runways? I don't know. Most of the figures I've seen show that the 195 has the as or better performance in all areas than the 737. However, there may be some DPs up there that are just so crazy that the 190 couldn't handle them. But as far as distance and load stuff, it's more than capabile.
 
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