Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
It’s one thing to burn down the outhouse, quite another to install the plumbing.
Purple TA
- Thread starter mikecweb
- Start date
It’s one thing to burn down the outhouse, quite another to install the plumbing.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
Campaigns are easy and oft-bombastic; actual governance/leadership is a boring thing.
To further that analogy, some are lighting the match and then going to take a • in the air conditioning next door.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Personally, I don't have any beef with the Negotiating Committee or the MEC, and don't see any reason they need to be recalled/replaced.
If the TA does not pass, they need to seek out more data about why it did not pass, re-calibrate their negotiation strategy, and get the • back to work.
Avalon781ML
Well-Known Member
Agreed… I disagree with the MECs/NCs viewpoint on how much improved this TA is… but recall only needs to occur if they refuse to realign their sight picture and try again…. Or if some nefarious business is unearthed… which I am not alleging via this post.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Like Mike said, an NC loses all their credibility with the Company when a TA fails. Pat has been doing this a long, long time, and if he's been saying he speaks for the pulse of the pilot group all of that time, when in reality he doesn't, the company may never believe him again, which takes away all of his effectiveness as NC chairman.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
As you know the NC is directed by the MEC. Some of the bad ideas could be from them. The problem is that we will never know.
Well the MEC voted 13-1 to pass this on to the membership so that body will face equal carnage depending on the outcome.
Soul Brotha'
Off to go do Black guy stuff
Not at your outfit but has the one guy/gal who voted no explained their reasoning?
ERfly
Well-Known Member
Yes, he did. And personally, I thought it was very well-written.
I've supported this MEC and especially this NC. Previously, I really enjoyed what PM had to say and how he said it.
That said, the dissenter brought up some very good points and it was very much worth the read.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Not FDX, but yes. To their credit, the FDX has posted everyone’s coms on the their TA page.
Process matters. But only in the margins. Won’t get a bad agreement passed, but it can tank a marginal one.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
I don't see the connection.
The TA vote is no different than a survey; a no vote on the TA is the pilot group is just providing the NC with rudder-corrections on what they want.
We don't need to waste the time of re-electing an all new MEC and re nominating a new NC and all which that entails. Have the current crew get on board with new polling data now and get the fack back to hammering out a new deal.
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Well this is union negotiations not a sailboat. (If you wanna talk sailboats we can start another thread, and I highly encourage you to buy one in Seattle that I can use while you're in Milan on your Gucci jet.)
I learned from folks like @Richman & @BobDDuck, they are intimately familiar with this process more than we will ever be. I would not dismiss their opinion on the matter at all.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but I have a lanyard that I wear and a bag-tag on my roll-aboard.
I've been assured that is critical for the Company to know that the NC speaks for me.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Sadly, that’s a real possibility.
And if I was on the NC and a TA failed, then I clearly didn’t have a good pulse on the pilot group, and my position in front of management is weakened. My resignation letter from the NC would be out shortly after a TA was shot down.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Thats true. It's imperative that the company knows your MEC/NC speaks for you. So when they bring back a TA that the pilot group votes down, it becomes quickly apparent to the company that the pilots in the room really weren't speaking for you. So now when your NC tells the company, if you can give us X, we can find a way to make Y work, tye company may not believe them, and will be super hesitant to give them X. Or if the NC tells the company, we can't get to a deal unless we have Z + 3 because the pilots won't take anything less, the company may just laugh and say no, because they no longer believe what the NC is telling them.
Successful negotiations are mostly about trust between the two parties. A failed TA (when the parties are actually working together towards a solution) wrecks that trust. Putting the same people back in the room will generally not lead to successful outcomes unless the required fixes are very small and simple.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Sorry Duck, if I was management and the TA was voted down, I’d tell the pilot group “your NC clearly didn’t speak for you.”
If a TA is voted down, new blood is needed in the NC. Just my worthless opinion.
If a TA is voted down, new blood is needed in the NC. Just my worthless opinion.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
What am I, chopped liver?
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
I'm sorry... did you not understand what i wrote because there weren't any pictures or Twitter links?
