Purple TA

[Avalon781ML]

If the pilot group turns down the TA that the NC brings how can they go back to the table and say they speak for pilot group?

I will give them the benefit of the doubt with the dynamic situation we lived through… Covid, record profits followed by a pretty dismal management portrayal of the future, and record setting contracts by DAL/AAL. But if the “this is the best we can do” nonsense continues or they do think they can move forward then they need to resign or be replaced post haste. If the company hadn’t changed their tune until after the contract had been ratified I’m sure the majority of the pilot group would’ve been ok with Section 1 as it is written in the current TA.

 

[Avalon781ML]

Thats true. It's imperative that the company knows your MEC/NC speaks for you. So when they bring back a TA that the pilot group votes down, it becomes quickly apparent to the company that the pilots in the room really weren't speaking for you. So now when your NC tells the company, if you can give us X, we can find a way to make Y work, tye company may not believe them, and will be super hesitant to give them X. Or if the NC tells the company, we can't get to a deal unless we have Z + 3 because the pilots won't take anything less, the company may just laugh and say no, because they no longer believe what the NC is telling them.

Successful negotiations are mostly about trust between the two parties. A failed TA (when the parties are actually working together towards a solution) wrecks that trust. Putting the same people back in the room will generally not lead to successful outcomes unless the required fixes are very small and simple.

Fair enough… you certainly have more experience than I do and you make a reasonable argument.

 

[SteveC]

Thats true. It's imperative that the company knows your MEC/NC speaks for you. So when they bring back a TA that the pilot group votes down, it becomes quickly apparent to the company that the pilots in the room really weren't speaking for you. So now when your NC tells the company, if you can give us X, we can find a way to make Y work, tye company may not believe them, and will be super hesitant to give them X. Or if the NC tells the company, we can't get to a deal unless we have Z + 3 because the pilots won't take anything less, the company may just laugh and say no, because they no longer believe what the NC is telling them.

Successful negotiations are mostly about trust between the two parties. A failed TA (when the parties are actually working together towards a solution) wrecks that trust. Putting the same people back in the room will generally not lead to successful outcomes unless the required fixes are very small and simple.

Sorry Duck, if I was management and the TA was voted down, I’d tell the pilot group “your NC clearly didn’t speak for you.”


If a TA is voted down, new blood is needed in the NC. Just my worthless opinion.

Isn't that exactly what @BobDDuck said? Why do you apologize if you agree with him?

 

[Skåning]

I don’t know when the last time it was done, but a negotiating tactic can be to set forth a garbage agreement to the group to get it voted down by a high percentage. Showing management what the NC would have been saying about them being way apart on expectations.

 

[BobDDuck]

I don’t know when the last time it was done, but a negotiating tactic can be to set forth a garbage agreement to the group to get it voted down by a high percentage. Showing management what the NC would have been saying about them being way apart on expectations.

That's generally only done when a company is absolutely not negotiating in good faith AND you have a (generally Republican controlled) NMB who is not applying any pressure to the company to behave.