Poll: ALPA vs Teamsters...Which is better for Colgan?

Little story i heard...


Certain crewmember, named Crewman A, finishes training, IOE and his line check. During the IOE section of training a family member passes away. Crewman A makes about 5 unanswered phone calls to crew planning, followed up with an email detailing the need to go the the service the following weekend. Crew planning makes no effort in the least to respond to either phone calls or email. After about 5 days of "nothing" from the company, Crewman A calls scheduling to see if anything is going on, to make sure nothing is scheduled for the days of the service. One of the new scheulers, name unknown, says,"No, there are no modifications to your schedule." So nothing untill the following week, (6 days away) Crewman A goes to service, then home to family, where there is no Cell reception. Sometime on that sunday, crew planning places Crewman A on reserve for monday-saturday. They fail to call, email or by any means notify Creman A. Crewman A uses a landline to check his messages on tuesday evening before heading to his house, and discovers a long list of phone calls from scheduling. The first one went something like this. " Hi, this is ***** from scheduling, we are showing you not notified for your reserve on tuesday, but we need you at the airport. We also show you not notified for the entire week. call us back." By the time Crewman A gets to the end of the voicemails, he has now learned that he is being tagged with 2 missed trips, for which he was never notified. So he calls scheduling back. Gets transfered to chief pilot. CP folds over to company will, and places all blame on Crewman A. Apparently, the death of family member is such an inconvienience to scheduling, that we should all tell family not to die, or, scheduling will get upset. Turns out, according to CP, it is not schedulings job to notify US of changes, but rather, we must call at least 1, maybe 2-5 times a day to see if there have been any changes to our schedule. If a crewman does not notify themselfs, then they may be fired for not doing schedulings job for them. Says pilot must get to base to cover trip next morning, and they WILL NOT be listing him on flts to get there. He is at fault for missed trips. We should also mention that Crewman A has not been able to log onto crewtrack, and gave up calling the person who would fix it because for a week straight they never answered their phone.
When CP is presented with original email, crewweb "notes" and voicemails stating he was not notified, agree's to not "take action" like he is doing crewman A a favor.

And we don't need ALPA.

Your CP is supposed to go to bat for you in said situation. It is UTTER BS that the crewmember in that situation should even get a PHONE CALL about it. Without protection, even if you CYA here, they can toss you under the bus. If the scheduler does not NOTE in crew track that you called, it may as well have not happened... good luck getting the tapes.

Crewman A had Employment attourneys ready to go if they had left even a disparaging remark on his file, and may consider takeing action otherwise.

Crewman A also feels at this point, that if he hears of a "no voter" or somebody encouraging people not to vote.. the effective and prescribed cure is 2x4, 2x4 being the choice dose of reality medication today.
 
no, these people voted but their votes were pulled because they left before the end of the election. Had their votes been counted ALPA would have won.

Am I seriously reading your argument right? You think it should could that you would have won because the NMB should have counted the guys who were ineligible?

If so...

That is the weakest argument I've heard yet. I admit I didn't understand ur reasoning the first time, but now that I do, I don't know what to say. From what I'm reading those pilots were ineligible, and their votes don't and shouldn't count. The much bigger questions that should be answered like where were the other 51% of the eligible voters that day.


If not...

Your gonna have to break out some visual aids because I don't know what the hell your talking about.
 
We weren't asked to be bought by Pinnacle....


Ah, you can't use that argument. PCL pilots didn't ask to purchase Colgan and have the company money go to finance Colgans growth in spite of their own pilot negotiations.

Most of the guys that post on here from Colgan, I know. I sincerely hope for the sake of you guys, that all goes well with the ALPA vote. Cruise, Rocket, Seggy, Snuggles and greaper. All good guys, I hope you don't get screwed by your own pilots.

That being said, I agree 100% with the PCL pilots. If Colgan as a whole, turns down ALPA, then all hell should be released. Sure, Colgan pilots didn't ask to be bought, but guess what, you did get bought. So either you adapt to the new situation, asses what needs to be done, or just quit. Its as simple as that. Taking the stance of "Well we didn't ask to get bought, so screw PCL and I'll do what I want" is complete bullsnap and you know it. Thats being lazy. Too lazy to get off your ass and leave the place and too lazy to fight to make things right. You're all lucky my ass ain't the MEC at PCL because I'd of takin care of business last year when the first vote lost.

This profession is such a swarming poo-flinging competition that its disgusting. Pilots need to stand together. Period. You can not take the side of the management at your company. Sure, they may send you a paycheck every month, but you earn every bit of it and you deserve a hell of a lot more. Just like TuckNtruck's story above, Mgmt will puke down your throat every chance they get, so WHY take sides with your Mgmt!??? From Airline CEO's right down the executive list, they are scum. They don't care about you, don't care about your family and they certainly don't care about your "well being". Your fellow pilots, even across company certificates, care more about you and your family and well being than the hand that feeds you. Get your heads out of the sand and clean your eyes off. Execs care about how many tens of thousands of dollars you put in their pocket every year. Not about your sick child, not about your dying mother, not about your own health. They just don't care...so WHY lift your leg and piss on your fellow pilots?????

**The above was NOT directed to the Colgan ALPA guys, merely the same idiots who voted no last year. I'm just all full of piss and vinegar lately at this industry, so take it for what its worth.
 
Am I seriously reading your argument right? You think it should could that you would have won because the NMB should have counted the guys who were ineligible?

If so...

That is the weakest argument I've heard yet. I admit I didn't understand ur reasoning the first time, but now that I do, I don't know what to say. From what I'm reading those pilots were ineligible, and their votes don't and shouldn't count. The much bigger questions that should be answered like where were the other 51% of the eligible voters that day.


If not...

Your gonna have to break out some visual aids because I don't know what the hell your talking about.

They did work here during the drive, they voted while still working here but they left before the vote was over. The point is there was a majority during the whole fiasco. Albeit slight. but even with them gone it barely failed.

I personally know may of the OC members, many many ardent supporters of the alpa drive and many people who worked very hard to get ALPA on property and i don't appreciate neither will i stand back and listen to you post on a public forum without refute that colgan pilots "snubbed alpa". There were too many of us who were completely for it to be labeled that way.
 
Ah, you can't use that argument. PCL pilots didn't ask to purchase Colgan and have the company money go to finance Colgans growth in spite of their own pilot negotiations.

I don't think you're understanding what I meant by that. There were a few posts earlier in the thread that I thought amounted to us being called scabs. I was just pointing out that Colgan wasn't part of Pinnacle when I was hired. I really didn't come to this job to take flying away from Pinnacle pilots. So it just sort of made me angry when posters referred to Colgan pilots as having no self worth. It felt like a barely clouded scab comment. There are one or two bad apples here, guys that got screwed all their career by furloughs or that are just d-bags. Most guys are just trying to get by in the job they could get (Colgan).

Second, I voted yes last year. I was even able to convince at least one senior Capt to change his mind and vote yes. I made a whopping 20,000 last year (including per diem). I was supposed to upgrade last month but the class got cancelled. Now I'm sitting here on track to make about 26,000 this year and my wife is due on September 7th. Money is beyond tight right now for me, so please don't tell me about how cold it is outside. We're just about at our breaking point.

I was excited about ALPA last year. I thought that we could have some real change and maybe I could be a part of that. I really don't know why it didn't pass. Except for a few vocal senior guys and apathetic non voters. Everyone seemed to be jazzed about it. I'm really hoping ALPA has a chance this year, but it seems like the uninformed and moronic are going to choose Teamsters. I saw an ad for teamsters in our crew room yesterday and asked loudly, "Why not just get stapled on to the flight attendants Steel Workers Union, that would make about as much sense."
 
Many pilots here that have followed the thing from the beginning feel that more than anything else we need protection from pinnacle alpa.


Okay, I see the problem. You're taking an "Us vs Them" mentality. You don't need PROTECTION, we need to work TOGETHER. If you feel you need protection from the Pinnacle MEC, then you really need to speak with more people at Pinnacle ALPA and listen less to the fear mongers over at Colgan. The MEC DOES NOT WANT A STAPLE. There it is again. There are a large amount of pilots at Pinnacle that would support it in a last ditch effort to protect ourselves, but it's NOT the first option. Our first option is to work together on a list integration that would benefit BOTH pilot groups. If that's what people think they need protecting against, we're all in trouble.
 
Money is beyond tight right now for me, so please don't tell me about how cold it is outside. We're just about at our breaking point.

And I'm laid off Sept. 1st, so I'm not preaching anything about it being cold outside. I chose to leave Colgan after the ALPA drive failed, so I put myself in this position to get furloughed, but it was worth the risk. I understand that some guys just can't leave Colgan. But generally, I've got no sympathy for the group, other than the few of you guys, if ALPA doesn't get through the second time and the Pinnacle pilots go after what they deserve in their contract without a blink to the CJC guys.
 
Many pilots here that have followed the thing from the beginning feel that more than anything else we need protection from pinnacle alpa.

Wow. Thats pure ignorance right there. Well if thats how many feel, go ahead and vote IBT. Then you guys will really need protection from PCL ALPA. :laff:

Oh man...even getting furloughed I don't miss the smell of that place....
 
Okay, I see the problem. You're taking an "Us vs Them" mentality. You don't need PROTECTION, we need to work TOGETHER. If you feel you need protection from the Pinnacle MEC, then you really need to speak with more people at Pinnacle ALPA and listen less to the fear mongers over at Colgan. The MEC DOES NOT WANT A STAPLE. There it is again. There are a large amount of pilots at Pinnacle that would support it in a last ditch effort to protect ourselves, but it's NOT the first option. Our first option is to work together on a list integration that would benefit BOTH pilot groups. If that's what people think they need protecting against, we're all in trouble.

if you truly want to work together than stop with the "vote alpa or else..." language. And where does allegheny-mohawk protocol play into a seniority integration. what does "fair and equitable" mean to you?

there will be no staple.
 
Wow. Thats pure ignorance right there. Well if thats how many feel, go ahead and vote IBT. Then you guys will really need protection from PCL ALPA. :laff:

Oh man...even getting furloughed I don't miss the smell of that place....

read your own post! "Then you guys will really need protection from PCL ALPA."
 
if you truly want to work together than stop with the "vote alpa or else..." language. And where does allegheny-mohawk protocol play into a seniority integration. what does "fair and equitable" mean to you?

there will be no staple.

Show me where I said "vote ALPA or else," and I'll take back everything I said.
 
They did work here during the drive, they voted while still working here but they left before the vote was over. The point is there was a majority during the whole fiasco. Albeit slight. but even with them gone it barely failed.

I personally know may of the OC members, many many ardent supporters of the alpa drive and many people who worked very hard to get ALPA on property and i don't appreciate neither will i stand back and listen to you post on a public forum without refute that colgan pilots "snubbed alpa". There were too many of us who were completely for it to be labeled that way.

I understand the situation was complex because of the high turnover in the industry at the time. However, I'm not going to pretend like the NMB vote was "robbed" because a lot of guys that were pro-ALPA (even on the OC) were ineligible (for leaving or any other reason). There were plenty of ineligible new hires that were anti-ALPA as well. There were plenty of guys who supposedly voted yes who later we found out didn't but meant to. You know what else? WHO CARES? If this debate is going to mean anything, it should revolve around legal voters at the last NMB election.

There were not too many who were completely for ALPA. In fact there were too little that were for it. If you need it specifically said the majority of the colgan pilots snubbed ALPA or the OC, whereas a minority (nearly the majority, but again not quite) were ardent supporters who should be rewarded, fine. I'd LIKE to think those who voted yes, like myself, wouldn't need that explained to them, but if I'm hurting your feelings and other yes voters then I'll acquiesce to that point. Personally I rewarded myself by quitting along with 2 other yes voters on the same day, within 10 minutes of each other.

Decisions are made by those who show up. Pilots at Colgan last august who didn't vote because they were too lazy, or against ALPA, get lumped in together (51%, also known as a majority). I say so, Seggy and other members of the OC said so*, the NMB says so, it is fact.

*I'm not 100% sure I can speak for them because they were pretty pissed at the time and for months afterwards... because their efforts were snubbed.
 
read your own post! "Then you guys will really need protection from PCL ALPA."

Dude, you seriously fly an airplane? With passengers?

Are you too niave to realize that if the Colgan pilots do not join their newly adopted coworkers (who btw, outnumber your group in large) under the same Union umbrella, that there will be NO unity between the two groups?

If you honestly believe it is "OK" to have TWO pilot groups, for the SAME company under TWO seperate unions, then wow, you guys must have been US AIRWAYS pilots at some point. Or you just want to model Gojets/TSA.

I pity any Colgan pilot that thinks they need Teamsters for protection from ALPA. I hear Mickey Mouse Airlines is hiring...yeah, they're offering a great benefits package with free admission to the park. Just send your resumes to DDuck@disney.com
 
I pity any Colgan pilot that thinks they need Teamsters for protection from ALPA. I hear Mickey Mouse Airlines is hiring...yeah, they're offering a great benefits package with free admission to the park. Just send your resumes to DDuck@disney.com

I hear that Micky Mouse Airlines (MMA) can get around the fuel costs of running the airlines because their airplanes run on starlight and magic. They serve PEZ instead of peanuts.

My resume is in.
 
Let's clear something up here: no one who was on the property at Colgan on the eligibility date was disqualified because they left before the vote was complete. That's not how the NMB process works. The NMB takes a "snapshot" of the eligible members when the petition for a vote is filed, and that's the list through the end of the voting cycle. If you leave a day before the vote ends, your vote is not disqualified. I was there at the NMB headquarters with Seggy when the vote tally came in. No one was disqualified.
 
Have you seen Pez and Starlight futures? They've already reached peak Pez and the Strategic Starlight Reserves have already been tapped.

Six Flags Georgia is going to be STEALIN' YUR JOBZZZzz. :)

(Heavy amounts of :sarcasm:)
 
Have you seen Pez and Starlight futures? They've already reached peak Pez and the Strategic Starlight Reserves have already been tapped.

Six Flags Georgia is going to be STEALIN' YUR JOBZZZzz. :)

(Heavy amounts of :sarcasm:)

I could live with being based out of Georgia. You think we'll have to work for cotton candy wages?
 
Dude, you seriously fly an airplane? With passengers?

Are you too niave to realize that if the Colgan pilots do not join their newly adopted coworkers (who btw, outnumber your group in large) under the same Union umbrella, that there will be NO unity between the two groups?

If you honestly believe it is "OK" to have TWO pilot groups, for the SAME company under TWO seperate unions, then wow, you guys must have been US AIRWAYS pilots at some point. Or you just want to model Gojets/TSA.

I pity any Colgan pilot that thinks they need Teamsters for protection from ALPA. I hear Mickey Mouse Airlines is hiring...yeah, they're offering a great benefits package with free admission to the park. Just send your resumes to DDuck@disney.com

uhm ASA-SKYWEST???? *edit*
 
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