Poll: ALPA vs Teamsters...Which is better for Colgan?
- Thread starter ThatOtherDude
- Start date
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
I had this conversation with a Colgan guy a little while ago:
Me: "Vote ALPA"
Him: "Well...ahhh...I think Teamsters would be a better fit for us."
Me: "Well, why's that?"
Him: "Well...ermm...ahh....I just don't like some of the things that ALPA has done in the past."
Me: "Like?"
Him: "You know, stuff...I don't really want to talk about it."
Me: "Vote ALPA"
Him: "Well...ahhh...I think Teamsters would be a better fit for us."
Me: "Well, why's that?"
Him: "Well...ermm...ahh....I just don't like some of the things that ALPA has done in the past."
Me: "Like?"
Him: "You know, stuff...I don't really want to talk about it."
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I weep for the future of our profession.
WacoFan
Bigly
I love arguing with D-bags like this. Keep up the good fight.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
That conversation sounds about right.
Colgan needs ALPA. I'm biased though, I bailed because of how bad all Colgan employees are treated (not just pilots) and because of the ALPA vote failure. Reading this conversation just reinforces it.
Glad I left.
SmitteyB
Well-Known Member
Because Airdale- they don't have to merge the lists anymore. The arbitrator reversed his ruling.
The reason some of the old dirty Q Captains in EWR want Teamsters is because they don't want to be displaced by a PNCL RJ Captain. They think since ALPA represents PNCL that we (Colgan guys) would get the shaft.
They just don't get it.
Baronman
Well-Known Member
I have my colgan anecdotes and trust me, the majority of the guys there 2+ years just don't get it. It's a little bizarre, they complain out pay and work rules yet really think there is some way to improve them without a union. Honestly I think the guys I'm thinking of were 100% interested in the Colgan selling points of low hiring mins, fast time, quick upgrade etc and were willing to suffer through the rest. The concept of self worth escapes them.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Without sounding like a broken record. . .
This seems to be a reoccurring issue at all 121 regional operators these days.
greaper007
Well-Known Member
Well Baron I came to Colgan almost 2 years ago because I had low time wanted a quick upgrade and to get a lot of time. I also think I have a degree of self worth. I just didn't want to get stuck at a regional for the next 5-10 years. T
he highest paying regional is still poop compared to a major. The most important thing for us is work rules and getting day per diem.
he highest paying regional is still poop compared to a major. The most important thing for us is work rules and getting day per diem.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
The most important thing is you guys keep your job and I understand that, I really do. With a company that has been as mismanaged as Colgan has been (BTW thats a direct quote from pilots there for +4 years, one of which got me a job with CJC), I don't know how you can get all the things you need and deserve without bankrupting the company. I don't envy your dilemma. Get Alpa, merge the list. The Mem based pncl pilots I talk to regularly on the bus they look down on the turbo-props and won't take your jobs. Its been pretty shocking.
Btw, when we come out of this funk in the industry, I hope those guys who have been waiting longer than you and I (the more qualified guys) get the major jobs they deserve because they've slugged it out when guys and you and I were looking for shortcuts. Plenty of guys from XJ who were only FO's were hired on with Delta with no turbine PIC time.
greaper007
Well-Known Member
I still think Colgan is in an excellent position with the price of fuel. We just need to get out of our own way. Management could probably pay for every demand we have if we would just make our operation more efficient. No more repo flights to Mannassas is a great first step. Crew utilization and getting rid of the outstations along with a thousand thing we all notice everyday would help.
At any rate I knew what Colgan was going into it. Personally, I don't think quick upgrade and lots of time are any less valid reasons for taking a job than high pay and good work rules. Considering that many employers consider turbine PIC to be perhaps the most important number in a pilots logbook I'm going to have to disagree with you considering the deservedness of other pilot groups.
A 6 year Express Jet, Eagle, etc pilot has suffered as much if not differently from a 4 year Colgan pilot. If they both have that magical 1000 hours of TPIC then that's all that should matter, not how long someone else has been flying in the industry. They've suffered by the long upgrade at their airline. We've suffered by making considerably less pay, and dealing with considerably more problems.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Yeah, sadly SJS is very much alive and well here. I hear new guys all the time saying they want to fly the -900 b/c it's "cool." Not b/c it's a better pay rate, b/c it's cool. Then they get down there and get a crappy schedule and wonder what happened.
But he's right. I wouldn't worry about many of the PCL guys taking the TP rides, especially the new guys.....
That being said, I've threatened to bid the Q just to spite Seggy.
sherpa
Well-Known Member
You too? I still have yet to hear a good solid reason. kills me. sometimes i think it is just pride because they voted no last year and now realize that was a mistake and now want to try and save face by saying it was a vote against ALPA. If they wanted teamsters so bad why didn't anyone get it on the ballot. pathetic.
sherpa
Well-Known Member
You too? I still have yet to hear a good solid reason. kills me. sometimes i think it is just pride because they voted no last year and now realize that was a mistake and now want to try and save face by saying it was a vote against ALPA. If they wanted teamsters so bad why didn't anyone get it on the ballot? pathetic.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
I know greaper. Its just tough for me to rationalize that thinking anymore. Anyway, I won't get on my horse here, but I just want to relay a story.
One of my FO's, a good kind man who is just a little older than me, just found out he's gonna be a dad. His wife, who already has medical complications, is helping to support them by working at Chick-Fil-A. She's gonna be outa work in a couple months for the pregnancy and he's no where closer to an upgrade. He's seriously considering bailing. An FO can't support a wife and new baby on the way? Part of me knows I helped set pay back for that guy. It was fine for a while man, but it is starting to eat at me. Watching good men twisting themselves into knots over a couple hundred extra a month is gut wrenching. I'm sick and tired of this crap. I talk to my union rep regularly and I'm trying my best to get in lockstep with them even if I don't agree with all of it. Don't know what else to do anymore.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
There was one vote for Teamsters the year before, and I can tell you with 95% certainty who it was. I say that because very early in the voting he explained to me how to do it (vote teamsters) because I was getting some questions I couldn't answer (because I just kept hitting #1 over and over again for ALPA). There was one vote for teamsters and one vote for "Anyone but ALPA", at least thats what I remember seggy telling me, and I believe there was one actual no vote. Colganites young and old, senior and junior, abstained from voting to delay the eventual pilot list merging/stapling or to protect their upgrades because they were "bailing out next year anyway". Except for a very few, most of them are still there, and the ones that arn't are giving me calls every once in a while at their legacy job with their $50 bucks an hour pay and their 12 hour reserve callout telling me "#### I didn't realise how bad I was treated at Colgan." I love those guys to death, but they are morons.
higney85
Property of Scheduling
Colgan needs ALPA. If you didn't have PNCL Corp you could possibly do something else (like you did in the past) but you need the strongest pilot group and also it will not hurt to be the same union as the other pinnacle pilots. From the 9E fence I feel that if the 9L guys are ALPA we are all in this together. Currently there are MANY guys over here that want those Q's with the first reason being "they didn't even vote in ALPA". Bringing in ALPA will "calm" that sentiment. Good luck guys!
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I think a quick upgrade and TPIC time is not even an excuse anymore. You're gonna get a quick upgrade, get TPIC and......go where? There are already thousands of guys in front of you waiting for that job at NetJets, Emirates or in the pool at SWA. So, you've slit your own throat if you pick a place with poor pay/work rules just for a quick upgrade.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
That's the problem, the jobs have NEVER been there in the numbers they think they are. A lot of folks think to themselves, "I'll just slog it out for a few years at a horrible company and then as soon as I hit 1,000 TPIC Southwest is gonna come knockin' down my door they'll want me to work for them so badly."
That simply isn't the case, nor has it ever been. Have a few people gone from places like Colgan and Lakes where you'll be treated like dirt for a few years so you can trade up for that brass ring in a few years? Sure! But they're few and far between. I mean look at Doug, he went from 20 hours in the left seat of the 1900 before getting to Delta, and he's pretty much set for life. To say that he's not the norm is the understatement of a life time.
CAN it happen like that? Sure! And it will. Are YOU likely to be that lucky? Probably not.
higney85
Property of Scheduling
I for one would not mind at all flying the Q. With that said I won't commute to do it 
. I enjoy my QOL, plan to upgrade here soon, and some TJPIC time would be good, but I will go for the pay/QOL in leiu of the "cool factor". That being said my wife wants to move to ATL so I guess I would have to fly the -900 to do that...anic:
Don't worry CJC guys... I won't be one of those "RJ drivers that" comes to take your job. I will say this much though- I expect the ALPA vote to be a "yes" across the board. The first time you had not "met" your new parents yet, now there is absolutely NO excuse.
. I enjoy my QOL, plan to upgrade here soon, and some TJPIC time would be good, but I will go for the pay/QOL in leiu of the "cool factor". That being said my wife wants to move to ATL so I guess I would have to fly the -900 to do that...anic:Don't worry CJC guys... I won't be one of those "RJ drivers that" comes to take your job. I will say this much though- I expect the ALPA vote to be a "yes" across the board. The first time you had not "met" your new parents yet, now there is absolutely NO excuse.
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