Poll: ALPA vs Teamsters...Which is better for Colgan?

TUCKnTRUCK

That guy
1)ALPA
2)
3)Teamsters
4)
5)
6)
7)
.
.
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99)Colgan Pilot Group

via order of importance. If the local 747 is like previous teamsters experience i have had... i would want to stay away.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
Re: Write-In Ballot

You must not be in my pad, they're all about Teamsters up there. I don't think they know WHY they're for Teamsters, though.
You're trying your best to educate them, right? I think this is really the problem. Lots of guys are for the IBT, but they don't have any idea why. They just heard some Captain talking about how the IBT would represent them better because of some imaginary conflict of interest that ALPA would supposedly have, and without understanding any of it, the more junior guys just buy into that theory. These IBT guys are leading everyone else down a primrose path. They're going to be very disappointed with what they end up with with the IBT.

Alright, surreal, your turn. ;)
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
PCL and Surreal in 3.....2......1
And everyone else who knows ALPA is the only reliable solution.

Pilots must be represented by other pilots, not with an association that will ##### themselves out to whatever profession that lacks representation.

Further, I don't have the data. . .but the IBT is not part of the AFL-CIO because of an insane amount money they still owe.

Along with the amazingly high number of complaints and grievances from their own members against the IBT. Once again, on the road and don't have the numbers. . .but it's an amazingly high number compared to ALPA.

Anyway back to watching the show.

Good luck guys.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
Further, I don't have the data. . .but the IBT is not part of the AFL-CIO because of an insane amount money they still owe.
Correct. The Teamsters left the AFL-CIO a couple of years ago, stiffing the AFL for over $7 million in back dues. A simple question for any IBT supporters at CJC: how can you trust a union to represent you when they can't even be trusted to pay their own debts?
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
ALPA. I've heard the argument about the conflict of interest and how they'd get screwed b/c PCL pilots are ALPA. Fact is, they'd have a better chance working with the PCL pilots as ALPA than IBT. If a seniority list integration every happens, then both groups being ALPA would also help the Colgan guys out. The other bonus is the infrastructure ALPA already has in place for support. IBT does have some infrastructure in place, but most of the aviation stuff is contracted out.....probably to ALPA.

If you want to see what the association with the AFL-CIO has done for ALPA, well, there's NUMEROUS examples throughout airline history where ALPA has successfully used it's relationship with the AFL-CIO to bring pressure on regulating bodies and the government in order to get what it wants/needs.

I just hope the voices of reason are louder than the voices of confusion over at Colgan this time around.

If Buddy Casey had his way, he'd probably toss IBT in without a vote just to keep ALPA off property. Sorta like what they did with the USW and the FAs.
 

WacoFan

Bigly
Perhaps a call to USAPA should be made...perhaps since the West guys won't pay dues, they could make additional income by picking up the Colgan group and they could represent? When it comes time for integration with the other company they would be invaluable - if the Colganites do not like the seniority list integration who better to show them how to undermine it than USAPA?
 

Velocipede

New Member
ALPA. And if you don't believe me, ask a Horizon guy how the Teamsters are working out for them. After all, Colgan and Horizon are pretty comparable operations.

And, its no coincidence that the airline division of the Teamsters has lost two or three carriers recently either to ALPA or in house unions.
 

MusketeerMan

Well-Known Member
ALPA. And if you don't believe me, ask a Horizon guy how the Teamsters are working out for them. After all, Colgan and Horizon are pretty comparable operations.

And, its no coincidence that the airline division of the Teamsters has lost two or three carriers recently either to ALPA or in house unions.
How is the Teamsters working out for Horizon? Leading the regionals in pay, great benefits...

Should we judge all the recent furloughs by who is representing them? No, because that wouldn't be fair because ALPA carriers are getting hosed as well.

You who think ALPA is the one and only way are silly. And on a serious note, who has Teamsters lost lately? Seriously, I don't know...
 

Airdale

Well-Known Member
I'd choose ALPA over Teamsters.

What I would like to know is this. I thought Colgan and PCL were getting merged into one Seniority list anyway. Why is Colgan not automatically brought into ALPA? A vote seems ridiculous. It should be ALPA or you're on the street.
 

greaper007

Well-Known Member
ALPA, for all the arguments against ALPA I don't think the main ones really hold water for those of us at Colgan. We're not a long time pilot group. We get in get up and get out. Even if there was a seniority list merge most of us would be gone by the time it went through. It would probably mainly affect the new hires, who would then be starting off in a fresh environment thus not really worrying about their place on the seniority list.

ALPA is a union by pilots and for pilots. The Teamsters seem like a shrinking organization that will grab at any labor group that will pay them dues. Granted this is just anecdotal but from what I've heard is the furloughed pilots in the Republic operations haven't received any support or literature from the Teamsters. They're actually getting more support and information from management than their union.

Also guys, after the Steel Worker debacle with our flight attendants you know that management would love to get teamsters on the property. Don't sign those cards, the Flight Attendants lost their chance at representation by a real union because of them. Lets not have the same thing happen to us.

I think ALPA is realizing their past mistakes with scope and treatment of the regional airline groups. The only way we can get pay back up and make this a decent career again is by standing together. So even if most of us will be gone from Colgan in the next 3 years or so lets follow the campsite rule and leave Colgan as a better place than how we found it.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
How is the Teamsters working out for Horizon? Leading the regionals in pay, great benefits...
They lead the regionals in pay rates, but not in actual gross compensation. Not even close, actually. Their work rules are far inferior to those at ALPA carriers such as XJT and ASA. That's a problem with the IBT: they don't understand all of these little pilot contract nuances that increase gross pay. If you drive a truck for a living, then by all means, go with the IBT. If you drive a Q400 for a living, then get a real pilots' union.

And on a serious note, who has Teamsters lost lately? Seriously, I don't know...
Netjets was the big loss just a couple of weeks ago. They also lost Evergreen to ALPA last year. There might be others, but those are off the top of my head.
 
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