Planes crash...(Butte, MT PC-12)

Re: Planes crash...

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NTSB ADVISORY

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National Transportation Safety Board

Washington, DC 20594



March 23, 2009



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NTSB TO HOLD A MEDIA BRIEFING ON THE BUTTE,

MONTANA PLANE CRASH



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The National Transportation Safety Board will hold a press briefing today

at 9:30 a.m., MDT, on its investigation into yesterday's plane crash in

Butte, Montana. NTSB Acting Chairman Mark V. Rosenker will conduct

the briefing.



The briefing will be held at Bert Mooney Airport, Butte, Montana, in the

terminal waiting area.
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Re: Planes crash...

How do you know how big those children were? Could they have been small lap children? Not saying its ok to have that many people in the plane but just throwing the idea out there.
 
Re: Planes crash...

I am just realizing that Butte was not his destination. It will be interesting to find out why he diverted.
 
Not familiar with the airports involved, but it's not an uncommon ploy to depart under IFR for an airport with an IAP with the hopes of arriving near your actual destination to find that it's VFR and diverting there. Or such has been my experience.
 
Of course the media's "expert" witnesses are reporting the standard statement "the airplane made a nose dive into the ground" without often having actually seen the airplane in detail while crashing.

All airplanes upon crashing:
...make a "nosedive"
...have their engines stall (apparently that's what a wing-stall is... when the engine's stall)
...are found to be a "single-engine Cessna" (even though it was a Baron)
..etc...
 
I once had an old lady ask me if the airplane was a Cessna when she was getting up in the mighty Dash. Always cogniscent of customer service and with our new program to WOW our passengers I decided the appropriate response was to punch her in the face.

^^^I may have made some of that up.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Not familiar with the airports involved, but it's not an uncommon ploy to depart under IFR for an airport with an IAP with the hopes of arriving near your actual destination to find that it's VFR and diverting there. Or such has been my experience.
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Ah! Good point, I was not even thinking about it from that side of things. Thanks.
 
Re: Planes crash...

Kevin said:
This hits home, I work at Table Mountian Aviation at the Oroville airport. My supervisor called me a few hours ago and told me about this. He said their were several kids between 7 and 10 years old. I am going to check to see if this wasnt one of the regular PC-12 fly-ins that took care of special needs children.

RIP
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The local news is reporting it was a Chico Dentist, and his pregnant wife were among the victims.
RIP
http://www.khsltv.com/content/topst...Stop-Before-Plane/Pe9eR__sb0qQWqXqxW1bdQ.cspx
 
************************************************************
NTSB ADVISORY
************************************************************

National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594

March 23, 2009

************************************************************

NTSB TO HOLD SECOND MEDIA BRIEFING AT 2:30 PM (MDT)
IN BUTTE, MONTANA

************************************************************

The National Transportation Safety Board will hold a 2:30 pm (MDT)
press briefing today in Butte, Montana. NTSB Acting Chairman Mark V.
Rosenker will update the media on the Safety Board's investigation of
yesterday's accident that claimed the lives of 14 persons.

The briefing will be held at Bert Mooney Airport, Butte, Montana, in the
terminal waiting area.
Click to expand...
 
This is just sickening. Why anyone would deliberately try to do something beyond the limits of an aircraft is just beyond me. There's just no room in our profession for cavalier actions.
 
Well, before people start using phrases like "beyond the limits of the aircraft" more needs to be known. Obviously it wasn't. They made it as far as they did. Theres a thousand different reasons this could have happened. Heart attack, seizure, one of the pax may have gone crazy.
Monday morning quarterbacking is pointless.
 
BajtheJino said:
Well, before people start using phrases like "beyond the limits of the aircraft" more needs to be known. Obviously it wasn't. They made it as far as they did. Theres a thousand different reasons this could have happened. Heart attack, seizure, one of the pax may have gone crazy.
Monday morning quarterbacking is pointless.
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Agreed. However, one can only speculate when 17 persons die in a plane suited for 12.
 
Just wondering here, but if the plane had room for 2 crew up front and up to 9 seats for pax in the back, in theory you could have had a maximum of 20 souls on board right?

2 crew + 9 adults + 9 lap children.

What is the exact definition of a lap child? I always thought it was any kid 2 and under?

What are the rules for number of souls on board the aircraft? Can every seat legally have an adult and a lap child?
 
BajtheJino said:
Well, before people start using phrases like "beyond the limits of the aircraft" more needs to be known. Obviously it wasn't. They made it as far as they did. Theres a thousand different reasons this could have happened. Heart attack, seizure, one of the pax may have gone crazy.
Monday morning quarterbacking is pointless.
Click to expand...

Flying with more people on board than the aircraft is certified for is beyond the limits of the aircraft. Put it in the same category as exceeding Vne, taking off above MTOW, etc. It goes to show the decision making process (or lack thereof) of the PIC.
 
Jimmy_Norton said:
Flying with more people on board than the aircraft is certified for is beyond the limits of the aircraft.
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The airplane has no idea of how many people it as in it. This particular model, like many others, is in operation through out the world with approval for operations over the book value of MTOW.
 
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