Pinnacle guys - is it almost finally time?

ATN_Pilot said:
It certainly is. Scope is everything.



What's going on? PM if you'd prefer. I haven't heard about this mess somehow.



Scope is everything.
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Of course scope is everything.... but the 900 guys are apparantly getting passed by in considerations during these negotiations. We've got a guy in MEM "selling" the contract to his minions, and no representation at the table for Atlanta. I'll be glad to take a pay cut for the rest of the employees while they all get raises (forget about the fact that our rates were arbitrated, so the company considers them untouchable and part of the new contract). I can't make soft money on reserve.... I need pay, and to lose pay instead of having someone bid over to the 200 to cover the $20,000..... yeah.... thanks negotiating team.

There are two companies at Pinnacle Inc..... the 200 side, and the 900 side. The union's only negotiating for the 200 guys.

I didn't hear anyone willing to help out when we complained ( for over a year ) about the pass benefits.... all we got from the 200 guys was "use your NWA bennies"..... well newsflash, NWA is going away!

There's no "unity" in unions... if there was.... we'd have:

1) guys passing on upgrade to get the displaced guys their seats back
2) guys in ATL dropping to 75 hours to let the reserve pilots fly
 
I would be willing to not get as much of a raise for rock solid scope. What I mean is that Pinnacle Corp can not transfer any of our flying to colgan in any way possible and we will be fairly merged. If Pinnacle decided to buy comair mesaba or any other regional they are merged fairly under our list., if pinnacle needs to start another certificate to grow, its under our seniority list.
Here is the kicker - I also want this to be rock solid if we are Sold to another company such as Republic or Delta for that matter. Pinnacle may want to create another holding company or something crazy like that.

There is no point in being the highest paid if your flying will just be transfered away.

As far as getting released by friday, i see think that is highly unlikely.
 
cencal83406 said:
Of course scope is everything.... but the 900 guys are apparantly getting passed by in considerations during these negotiations. We've got a guy in MEM "selling" the contract to his minions, and no representation at the table for Atlanta. I'll be glad to take a pay cut for the rest of the employees while they all get raises (forget about the fact that our rates were arbitrated, so the company considers them untouchable and part of the new contract). I can't make soft money on reserve.... I need pay, and to lose pay instead of having someone bid over to the 200 to cover the $20,000..... yeah.... thanks negotiating team.

There are two companies at Pinnacle Inc..... the 200 side, and the 900 side. The union's only negotiating for the 200 guys.

I didn't hear anyone willing to help out when we complained ( for over a year ) about the pass benefits.... all we got from the 200 guys was "use your NWA bennies"..... well newsflash, NWA is going away!
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Divide and conquer - sadly its not only a management tactic. We need to show everyone that we are united. If I look at a TA and ATL guys are getting hosed I will vote no and i would expect the same if it is the other way around.
 
pilotlight said:
Divide and conquer - sadly its not only a management tactic. We need to show everyone that we are united. If I look at a TA and ATL guys are getting hosed I will vote no and i would expect the same if it is the other way around.
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You're damn right I'd vote no on a contract that wouldn't be equitable to the 200 side...:beer:

Every proposal that I've had that's been laughed off has been about unifying the pilot group. "Seniority has its benefits" as Todd likes to say.... sure does, when you can vote in a contract with soft money gains that won't be seen by the folks on reserve.... talk about only working for the top 20....:dunno:

ATL pilots - show unity by bidding 75 hour lines so that more people have lines and reserves fly.... we've got 30 guys displaced and they should have first rights back to their earned seats no matter HOW long it takes.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Didn't you guys open a new Atlanta Council and elect Status Reps? How can you not have representation?
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In a figurative manner of speaking. We're 1/4 of the entire council so our voice is "heard" less. I know that the ATL reps are voting for the union as a whole but keeping their personal base in mind. We've got a definite no vote coming from here on what the negotiated contract says. The negotiating committee is one man. He is a -200 pilot. Scott is a -900 "qualified" guy but I've never seen him in ATL. I can only assume that he's definitely got ATL in his interest but who knows if Zach really knows what the ATL guys want pay wise and work rules wise...
 
How is the NC only one man? I thought you had Zach, Pete, and one other guy? Besides, you can't design an NC based on who is based where and what equipment they fly. You have to pick the guys that are best qualified to be negotiators and count on the MEC and NC to utilize the polling data to figure out what is important to the pilots.
 
A reasonable provision would be a ratio of the most senior reserve pilots receive reserve on 700/900 pay. If the base is all 900s then all reservists should be paid for 900 on reserve. If it is 20% 900 and 80% 200 then the top 20% of senior reservists should be paid for 900 while on reserve.

Seems very reasonable and wouldn't cost anymore than it does now (since 900s and 200s each have their own reserves now) but who knows what Management would say: 'No, because we're trying to do a little paycut here and paying everyone 200 rates is more cost effective for us!' ? :p

Even this has a little wiggle room for Management because they could go fat on reserve on 200 bases and deadhead guys out of there to fly the 900 while paying them 200 rates, but that might get expensive / silly.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
A reasonable provision would be a ratio of the most senior reserve pilots receive reserve on 700/900 pay. If the base is all 900s then all reservists should be paid for 900 on reserve. If it is 20% 900 and 80% 200 then the top 20% of senior reservists should be paid for 900 while on reserve.

Seems very reasonable and wouldn't cost anymore than it does now (since 900s and 200s each have their own reserves now) but who knows what Management would say: 'No, because we're trying to do a little paycut here and paying everyone 200 rates is more cost effective for us!' ? :p

Even this has a little wiggle room for Management because they could go fat on reserve on 200 bases and deadhead guys out of there to fly the 900 while paying them 200 rates, but that might get expensive / silly.
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Uh..... you're not on our NC are you?!? This is much worse than anything that could be put in front of the Pinnacle pilot group at this point.

Talk about being only about the top guys.... that's a good way to divide up the group....
You can bet your butt the company would use the 200 rates for everything that they could.



ATN-Pilot --> Well on the airlinkpilots site it only lists Zach as the NC (chair) and no-one else. He does the updates on the conf calls, rightfully so.... but it just seems like what I heard from the R&I guy in ATL doesn't really take any 900 guys into consideration.... almost as if the NC said "well the 900 guys got theirs".... but we shall see.... the problem, and straight from the mouth of the R&I, is that we need to be worried about the 200 guys voting "yes" just because of the pay raise.
 
If you feel you are not represented call your rep and ask "what's up". Have your areas of concern and get answers. My plate is beyond full so I will not start replies to every point and concern but there are elected reps in every base who volunteer to represent your needs and desires.
 
higney85 said:
If you feel you are not represented call your rep and ask "what's up". Have your areas of concern and get answers. My plate is beyond full so I will not start replies to every point and concern but there are elected reps in every base who volunteer to represent your needs and desires.
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Thanks for the standard union response dude. I can call Mike up all I want and we're still going to get hosed at the table. The fact that the 900 rates are staying where they're at is case in point. I will call Mike.... but I already know where he stands and all the 900 guys feel the same..... y'all in the 200s are going to pull up the proverbial ladder "because we got ours". Just vote no.

It's always nice to be told by a union guy that I "have no room or right to complain because I am living in base on reserve not flying. Go do something else with your time." Thanks.
 
Standard union response? You are a member just as much as I am. Call your reps, and email the negotiating reps. This dual qual issue is HUGE for -900 guys, hence the reason nobody will accept you to be a -200 paid pilot and a -900 pay treatment only in the airplane.
 
higney85 said:
Standard union response? You are a member just as much as I am. Call your reps, and email the negotiating reps. This dual qual issue is HUGE for -900 guys, hence the reason nobody will accept you to be a -200 paid pilot and a -900 pay treatment only in the airplane.
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Well I have.... but the thing is... "what am I willing to give up"?

signed,

Frustrated in tha ATL
 
higney85 said:
Did you reply with an answer? NOTHING would be expected answer with 5 years of stellar performance and a 99% strike vote.
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My answer is nothing, Ken. The thing is, even your buddy Craig says "what are you willing to give up" as if we should or have to. I don't buy it. BTW I'll call ya in a while.

I think it's a bit weird to recall a guy 7 months before the term is out but you need the proper guy to cast the vote, and I support your ideas.

I think I'd be much less frustrated if the movement was the same as it was the first 6 months (100 spots) vs the last 11 (10 spots).....

but.... I don't appreciate fellow pilots telling me things like "I'm lucky" or "I should be happy".... etc..... that's just not right.... "This must be your first job" is also a line I got.
 
cencal83406 said:
There's no "unity" in unions... if there was.... we'd have:

1) guys passing on upgrade to get the displaced guys their seats back
2) guys in ATL dropping to 75 hours to let the reserve pilots fly
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We're the same way over at ASA. Last year they dropped line values to 75 hours to spread some of the flying and the old fat (self censored) bitched and moaned. The latest thing is them complaining about the furlough assistance fund to help pay health insurance for the guys on furlough. You hear things like "Its my money!" and "they should have planned to be furloughed!" and "I can't afford it!" My bill is just over $3. The most expensive one I've heard from a captain is about $9 a month. So much for "unity".
 
Rex, it's not about "getting more flying," it's about keeping the flying we have from being outsourced to Colgan through some back door loophole as well as protecting us in the event of a merger. Could be US the next time Republic decides to go on a spending spree. I doubt it, but it could happen. What good would a couple of extra cents do then when we could exchange the few cents for a rock solid scope....with a parent company letter?

Todd, it's pretty much all over the crew rooms. There was a motion called and seconded at the latest MEM LEC meeting to recall your favorite MEM CA rep.
 
kellwolf said:
Rex, it's not about "getting more flying," it's about keeping the flying we have from being outsourced to Colgan through some back door loophole as well as protecting us in the event of a merger. Could be US the next time Republic decides to go on a spending spree. I doubt it, but it could happen. What good would a couple of extra cents do then when we could exchange the few cents for a rock solid scope....with a parent company letter?
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Exactly. Well put. :clap::clap:

I will be more than happy to exchange a couple of extra cents in order to protect my job though very good solid scope... not to mention a good parent company letter.
 
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