Pinnacle guys - is it almost finally time?

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pilotlight

Well-Known Member
I am totally going to jinx it by saying this, but does anyone else get the impression that we might be voting on something in our near future? Granted, it might not even pass but the chatter has been a lot more positive lately.
 
pilotlight said:
I am totally going to jinx it by saying this, but does anyone else get the impression that we might be voting on something in our near future? Granted, it might not even pass but the chatter has been a lot more positive lately.
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My answer is already "NO" to the TA unless something drastic is changed re: benefits. I also have many ATL pilots behind me on this one.

I am ready to strike. Let's walk the streets and shut this beotch down.
 
Unless management comes back with something stellar on pass benefits WITHOUT us having to give up anything to get what we already had, I'm voting "no" as well. Honestly, with the direction given our negotiating committee (assuming they listen to the outrage of all the pilots, and they normally do), I doubt we'll see anything to vote on unless it's got protection for pass benefits in it. If that all magically happens, we might see a TA sometime by the end of the summer unless the NMB decides to release us. I don't think we'll see much out of the negotiatiing sessions this week, though. So, if the pass benefit fiasco hacks off the mediator enough, we might be cooling off rather than voting.
 
I havent been at pinnacle since last year, so i dont know what the latest rumors are. But i will definitely vote no if we dont get back our "peanut butter jar" as welll as retro or a very nice signing bonus, among other major improvements. I am ready to walk. If we shut down, i will just go back to the desert. I made better money there as an E-3 than flying left seat at the nickel.
 
travel benfits have nothing to do with our collective barganing agreement. Sure the stipulation about our parents flying on our company aircraft is in there but what delta gives us is a negotiaion with our management and theirs. Our management is going to talk to them this week about it. Our new pass travel benefits are aweful, but they can be fixed. I am more worried about our work rules and things of that nature. the pass travel thing will end up dividing our pilot group if we let it do that to us. I feel we need to focus on the actual contract right now.
 
pilotlight said:
travel benfits have nothing to do with our collective barganing agreement. Sure the stipulation about our parents flying on our company aircraft is in there but what delta gives us is a negotiaion with our management and theirs. Our management is going to talk to them this week about it. Our new pass travel benefits are aweful, but they can be fixed. I am more worried about our work rules and things of that nature. the pass travel thing will end up dividing our pilot group if we let it do that to us. I feel we need to focus on the actual contract right now.
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We won't be divided. We'll show the company we'd rather shut it down than accept some combination of contract + substandard benefits or the other way around.

The contract doesn't have duty rigs and only gives 75% dhd pay. That's enough to vote no for me, IN ADDITION to travel bennies. I'm ready to take this place out of business.
 
pilotlight said:
travel benfits have nothing to do with our collective barganing agreement. Sure the stipulation about our parents flying on our company aircraft is in there but what delta gives us is a negotiaion with our management and theirs. Our management is going to talk to them this week about it. Our new pass travel benefits are aweful, but they can be fixed. I am more worried about our work rules and things of that nature. the pass travel thing will end up dividing our pilot group if we let it do that to us. I feel we need to focus on the actual contract right now.
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Exactly. Don't let the Pass Travel stuff get in the way of pay and work rules. Pass travel is between your management and Northwest/Delta, your management and Delta can change that agreement from one day to the next.

I'd hate to see guys accept a substandard agreement because management "came through" with new and improved Pass Travel Bennies.
 
Baronman said:
I'd hate to see guys accept a substandard agreement because management "came through" with new and improved Pass Travel Bennies.
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Which is exactly why I think management is playing "used car dealer" by going back to the "sales manager" known as Delta to get a "better deal." They'll come back and say "Good news! We were able to do that for you. Now just sign on this line b/c it's a limited time offer."

As far as pass travel NOT being in the contract, not entirely true. In fact, they're already violating our current agreement as of June 23rd when our parents have to pay ZED high to travel on our own flights. It says in our contract that parents travel for free on Pinnacle flights. The company is playing the "Well, WE'RE not charging you, DELTA is. So, technically, we're not violating the agreement." It wouldn't be that difficult to get a clause in the same section saying we get pass benefits on par with other non-wholly owned carriers. What management is telling us and what seems to actually be occurring in reality are two different things. We had a management guy in DTW the other day saying we still get priority on our own flights when a memo that came out the day before said that we're on the same level as NWA/Delta mainline based on seniority (aka a more senior mainline person with more seniority can bump us off our own flight). Apparently, management either doesn't have a clue on what the rank and file benefits are or they can't be bothered to read their own memos.


Honestly, I think it's less likely for a sub-standard contract to go through right now. I'm more concerned about a GOOD contract getting voted down b/c everyone is pissed.
 
cencal83406 said:
We won't be divided. We'll show the company we'd rather shut it down than accept some combination of contract + substandard benefits or the other way around.

The contract doesn't have duty rigs and only gives 75% dhd pay. That's enough to vote no for me, IN ADDITION to travel bennies. I'm ready to take this place out of business.
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where are people hearing all of these things that are supposidly in this TA we don't even have yet, even on our own message board there is a post about the signing bonus. We don't even know what it is yet! lets wait for the official TA announcement in 2015 before we start bashing. Also, if you are unhappy with what the union negotiated, then you vote NO, you dont say, oh alpa sucks and then vote yes. Vote no and then email your reps and tell them why you voted no.
 
pilotlight said:
where are people hearing all of these things that are supposidly in this TA we don't even have yet, even on our own message board there is a post about the signing bonus. We don't even know what it is yet! lets wait for the official TA announcement in 2015 before we start bashing.
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A few birds in the nest are quietly chirping about whats in the contract. To get a good idea, look at the "last best final offer" posted in 2006... But according to my sources, some of the improvements include long and short call reserve. I'm not happy with no duty rigs and 75% dhd pay though. I'll have to e-mail RM but I think we're too late in this stage to "move the goalposts".... I don't subscribe to that filthy tactic.

Also, if you are unhappy with what the union negotiated, then you vote NO, you dont say, oh alpa sucks and then vote yes. Vote no and then email your reps and tell them why you voted no.
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Uh..... where did I say "oh alpa sucks"? If you're an Atlanta guy, did you vote for your LEC127 rep election? I could have used a few more votes.... 16 would have been sufficient. We had a total of 45 votes out of a 200+ person base..... that's a big "eh" from the rank and file.

Trust me, I know RM personally, and he's doing a very good job as our Communications Chair, despite what people whine about on the CoFo
 
cencal83406 said:
A few birds in the nest are quietly chirping about whats in the contract. To get a good idea, look at the "last best final offer" posted in 2006... But according to my sources, some of the improvements include long and short call reserve. I'm not happy with no duty rigs and 75% dhd pay though. I'll have to e-mail RM but I think we're too late in this stage to "move the goalposts".... I don't subscribe to that filthy tactic.



Uh..... where did I say "oh alpa sucks"? If you're an Atlanta guy, did you vote for your LEC127 rep election? I could have used a few more votes.... 16 would have been sufficient. We had a total of 45 votes out of a 200+ person base..... that's a big "eh" from the rank and file.

Trust me, I know RM personally, and he's doing a very good job as our Communications Chair, despite what people whine about on the CoFo
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I wasnt talking about you, it was a general statement
 
Talk with some of the guys on the negotiating committee, and you can glean some of what's in there. If half of what I heard about the reserve rules is true, I'm pretty happy with what they've got there. Assuming everything else I want falls into line (cancelation pay, living wage, per diem increases, no medical coverage changes, etc), it may be a winner for me.

Had one of the negotiators in my recurrent class last month, and he talked more than the instructor.
 
higney85 said:
I'm just going no comment after some of the sections that I have seen.
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Ill be honest with you these type of comments are what frustrate us who are not in the loop It seems like the union is leaking that the TA that we havent even signed yet is crappy but then it seems like we wont even get one soon. NO direct shot at you personally, but its just frustrating to be on the outside looking in. I put all my faith in our negotiators and i hope they come through for us. If I don't like it, I will vote to send it back.
 
pilotlight said:
travel benfits have nothing to do with our collective barganing agreement. Sure the stipulation about our parents flying on our company aircraft is in there but what delta gives us is a negotiaion with our management and theirs. Our management is going to talk to them this week about it. Our new pass travel benefits are aweful, but they can be fixed. I am more worried about our work rules and things of that nature. the pass travel thing will end up dividing our pilot group if we let it do that to us. I feel we need to focus on the actual contract right now.
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Wow, you'all have no faith in me. haha....Don't think i am going to vote yes to a crappy contract just because we got our travel bennies back. I have been flying under this crappy contract longer than most on this board. so best believe I want better pay/workrules/retirement.

If you think management is going to "talk it out with Delta" to get us better pass travel, you're crazy. what has management ever done for us?? The reason why we are getting a contract (so we think) is because someone higher than Phil T is telling the company to get it done. otherwise we would be in negotiations forever. This is the only leverage we have. This is the perfect time to ask for our travel bennies back. And i have faith in my negotiating committee to know they wont give up a thing for it.
 
blee256 said:
Wow, you'all have no faith in me. haha....Don't think i am going to vote yes to a crappy contract just because we got our travel bennies back. I have been flying under this crappy contract longer than most on this board. so best believe I want better pay/workrules/retirement.

If you think management is going to "talk it out with Delta" to get us better pass travel, you're crazy. what has management ever done for us?? The reason why we are getting a contract (so we think) is because someone higher than Phil T is telling the company to get it done. otherwise we would be in negotiations forever. This is the only leverage we have. This is the perfect time to ask for our travel bennies back. And i have faith in my negotiating committee to know they wont give up a thing for it.
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Actually, I think they ARE talking to Delta. They tried to sneak this one by us and hoped everyone would say "Oh well, there at goes." Then they realized that if they go through with this, they're gonna be short of FAs, rampers and gate agents during the busy summer months while they bring new people up to speed. Oops. All it did was not only unite the pilot group (mostly), but put ALL of the employee groups firmly in management's collective faces.

On the "Delta is pushing PCL to get a contract," I don't know if I buy into that. If we drop out, Delta can just either let the flying go or shift it to another carrier. I'm sure they could downgrade ATL-RIC from a -900 to a -700 while ASA does ATL-Belize City in a -900. From what I've gotten from Scott (and he talks to Lee Moak over at Delta a lot), there's not much pressure coming from Delta on this one. I'm more inclined to think there's another RFP out there we're not hearing about that might hinge on a pilot contract.
 
Sorry for drama.... The areas that I am "plugged" into has some open areas that can go really good or really bad (401K match/vesting) as well as some things that have been TA'd on (health insurance coverage/cost) which is good, although some of the "details" are still a mixed bag (and not closed yet) concerning various areas (retiree vs. furlough vs. medical leave). The whole package (call it a proposal) has been fed from the committee(s) to the negotiating committee with guidelines and desires to fulfill with the new contract. Many issues that need change are to block the company to "interpret" or try to force pilots into situations that can be costly (FMLA usage and COBRA language for example).

Until a TA is presented we can only trust that the guys are fighting hard and are focused on an overall industry leading deal with nothing concessionary or below industry average throughout the entire contract. Nothing is officially TA'd until the MEC says so and they vote to show the pilot group.
 
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