Pinnacle discussion
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kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Well, it was a 125% JA that I managed to get turned into an extension at 150%. Wasn't too crazy about deadheading back to MEM only to have a 520 show to deadhead up to MSP. Got them to agree to flying me over to MSP from DTW rather than the two deadheads and minumum rest. Besides... I need to build up a couple of comp days for later in the year (read Vegas... if possible)
I've gotten to the point where I don't even wanna help the company out, comp day, 200%, 500%. I don't care. They punch me in the face and don't even apologize. Then they ask for favors. Let 'em sweat or try to talk someone else into doing it. I'm over my "battered wife" syndrome of "No, really. It'll be different this time." Besides, why settle for 150% when everyone else is getting 200%? Shoulda at least held them to the coals for that one.
Management doesn't really seem to care if this place burns tomorrow. Why should I anymore?
citationCJ1
Well-Known Member
So what is th next step regarding the TA?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Up to the NMB. Could be more mediated talks (which is what I'm guessing), could be an impasse declared (not likely since this was just the first mediated session since the TA was voted down) or we get put on ice (which I don't think is likely either seeing as the NMB's job is to get this done).
I didn't think morale could get any lower. I was wrong. Since that new attendance policy came out, I think even more people are ready just to walk out the door. I pride myself on the level of crap I can put up with. I'm past my breaking point right now. We're about to have people leaving for jetBlue, Emirates and probably Delta, and there's NO plan in place to replace them. Guys are flying 90+ hour lines, reserves are maxed out, no one is getting the days off we did a year ago and the company decides to get tougher on sick calls. What we need to do is hire, but apparently the wizards in the ivory tower over on Nonconnah are terrified of a block hour drain that's gonna suck everything away on Sept 1st. Newsflash: we've been this short all damn year. Get out of the office, walk around and talk to people. Yes, I know it's hot. We're the ones flying (or in my case NOT flying) with deferred APUs while you guys write memos about "unplanned absences" and play paper football in the office with your ex-FedEx buddies. Do what you're paid entirely too much for: manage the friggin' airline. Go out and get us some more flying. Figure out a staffing model that works. At least get us to the point where we can fly the flights assigned to us instead of pawning them off on Mesaba because we don't have planes or crews. And the latest health care proposal? Yeah, if I see who's bright idea THAT was a few days after the sick call memo, they'll need to use their health insurance to have the proposal removed from where I put it.
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
Good lord, your manglement team sounds like a squad of raging nincompoops. I just hope the NMB releases y'all to strike.. that would serve those clowns right.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
At this point, I'm not even sure they would care. Most of our money and attention has been going to Colgan anyway. Wouldn't surprise me if they just let 9E die on the vine and started over with Colgan. Nothing against the Colgan guys and gals. Neither one of us deserve or asked for any of this.....
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Don't be so certain. The NMB's primary job is to prevent disruptions to commerce. Assisting in the negotiation of agreements is part of their job, but the primary goal is always in their mind. If they don't believe that a release is likely to result in a deal, then they probably won't provide one.
Not only that, but in the minds of the NMB, being put on ice and getting the contract finished are not mutually exclusive concepts. If they believe that the union is the party that is holding up the deal, then recessing the negotiations is their way of applying pressure to the union in an effort to get a deal.
The question is, who does the NMB feel is at fault? I don't know the answer to that question, but it's not always who you think it is.
I'm curious, do you feel that any movement is appropriate in the area of health insurance on the part of the union, or do you think you shouldn't accept anything different than current book? What is the opinion of the pilot group overall on this issue?
The way i understand it.....the company was not even willing to discuss other matters the pilot group was asking for such as min day, 11 days off for reserves, reserve rules, ect. If they came to the table with similar work rules that our peers have, then I would be willing to accept a concession in insurance since we pretty much have industry leading insurance (or so I'm told). But they WILL NOT get away with concessions without MAJOR increases in work rules or qol issues that was lacking in TA1.
The way I view it is this: the company has been making $$$ over the current contract, nobody doubts that. After years of purposely stalling in negotiations with the association we should be allowed a few items that are industry LEADING. The company cannot stall negotiations for a few years then throw their hands up in the air when ALPA demands something that is above industry average. Hopefully the NMB will understand this and act accordingly........
When we were properly staffed we were turning out better performance numbers than Hawaiian for a couple of months. That is not the case now due to the company's own arrogance and stupidity. Not only are they blaming us for the recent downturn in performance numbers ("unplanned" absences) they propose sick policies like the one floating around. This pilot group DESERVES and descent contract for all the BS we have been through in the past month/years. I WILL NOT feel sorry for the company when they actually have to pay out on a couple of items in TA2. Hopefully the NMB see's the truth and acts accordingly...........
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
I've gotten to the point where I don't even wanna help the company out, comp day, 200%, 500%. I don't care. They punch me in the face and don't even apologize. Then they ask for favors. Let 'em sweat or try to talk someone else into doing it. I'm over my "battered wife" syndrome of "No, really. It'll be different this time." Besides, why settle for 150% when everyone else is getting 200%? Shoulda at least held them to the coals for that one.
Management doesn't really seem to care if this place burns tomorrow. Why should I anymore?
Only reason I did what I did was because it benefited me a heck of a lot more than them. Wasn't too crazy about the 1130 in base to go back out that early and with some issues that came up last month (wife off work for two weeks), it was an opportunity to put some cash in my pocket. As far as the 200%... yeah, I could have held them to that, but seeing as I had already demanded a schedule change and quoted chapter and verse concerning differences in a Junior Assign and an Extension, I didn't want to push my luck too much more.
Besides... I haven't exactly been flying under the radar lately (lots of red on my schedule for May and early June) so I figure I will try and "play nice" *cough* *cough* for a little bit.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
After the company refusing to even talk about other issues unless we agreed to their health care proposal (which was essentially "You'll get the same health care every other group at the airline gets") which was not only less than what we have now, but less than what they offered in TA1, I'd HOPE the NMB isn't 100% clueless. According to the latest e-mail, there aren't THAT many open issues left: 11 days off for reserve, min day, insurance/retirement and union leave specifics. They could have easily back burnered the insurance/retirement to talk about some of the other topics, but the company wasn't interested. To me, it stank of an all too familiar stall tactic.
Like Sioux said, it really depends on the other issues. TA1 that was voted down had concessions on health care compared to what we have now, but that wasn't what made me put my big "No" stamp on it. I'm open to other avenues and suggestions, but the increases in costs they were talking would have resulted in less money in everyone's pocket at the end of the day even WITH 100% cancellation pay, no more 15 minute rule and pay increases. As for the pilot group as a whole....I honestly can't say. I haven't seen the polling data, so I can only go on what I hear from the crew rooms. That's essentially that this place could close tomorrow, and there'd likely be a big party. I know with a wife and kid, health insurance is a priority for ME, but it might not be for the single FO living with 2 or 3 roommates in his 20s.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Did the company ever actually say why they needed it, or are they still playing the "Because we do!" game? Last I heard, it was a dead issue until the company actually said "We need it to do XXXX." If they want it for just random reasons and in a deal where we "work out the details later," then they should be prepared to pay through the nose for it in negotiation capital.
higney85
Property of Scheduling
When you find out let us know
. It's a "we gotta have it", when asking "why" we don't get anything. We are willing to talk all day but they seem to want to create a house (dual qual) and say it's got 4 walls and a roof. When we ask whats the layout? They say "we don't know yet, but buy this house!"That's my impression, I'm sure I'll get a mgmt phone call rebuttle.
flyingmaniac
Well-Known Member
It must be real irritating for the pilots being the fish and management being the hook with bait on it. Your management is acting like spoiled children who want everything but don't want to give up anymore money than what they are already paying.
I say push 'em and make them grow up or request for strike. Makes me wonder how many times can you talk about the same subject until someone from the union just slaps management and tell them to wake up.
I say push 'em and make them grow up or request for strike. Makes me wonder how many times can you talk about the same subject until someone from the union just slaps management and tell them to wake up.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I wish it were that easy. Right now, it's all in the hands of the NMB. If they come back and say keep talking, we have to keep talking. We can request a release or a proffer of arbitration all day long, but until they grant either, we're pretty much cuffed into the "status quo." Personal opinion is that it seems the company is allowed to change the status quo at will (see the multitude of new policies that have come out since we started negotiations), but the pilots don't have any wiggle room.
Nick
Well-Known Member
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Heh. Glad ya liked it. I have to infuse humor to keep myself from breaking down and weeping in the corner.
pilotlight
Well-Known Member
quick break from contract talk to ask you guys what you think about this
Its a strong rumor now that Skywest is going to buy Mesaba which is a shame if it happens but oh well. Obvioulsy Compass and Comair are up for sale if the price is right for delta but and FO and I were talking on my last trip and we both agreed that pinnacle will never get awarded any more 900's for delta because for one there is none left with scope at this point and 2, why would delta give them anymore with the way things are going right now. We would be lucky to keep what we have going forward. Does anyone think pinnacle will take a chance at Compass or Comair this fall to make up for the "HUGE DECREASE IN BLOCK HOURS" that is preventing our valiant leaders from hiring?
I doubt we even have the money for such a transaction but you never know.
Its a strong rumor now that Skywest is going to buy Mesaba which is a shame if it happens but oh well. Obvioulsy Compass and Comair are up for sale if the price is right for delta but and FO and I were talking on my last trip and we both agreed that pinnacle will never get awarded any more 900's for delta because for one there is none left with scope at this point and 2, why would delta give them anymore with the way things are going right now. We would be lucky to keep what we have going forward. Does anyone think pinnacle will take a chance at Compass or Comair this fall to make up for the "HUGE DECREASE IN BLOCK HOURS" that is preventing our valiant leaders from hiring?
I doubt we even have the money for such a transaction but you never know.
Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
What if Pinnacle buys Mesaba?