Pinnacle discussion

Tram said:
Ah yes.. 5+ years of negotiating.. Let's change strategies one more time.. I'm sure once we hit the decade point we'll swap them again..

Is there a point where anyone can just admit that the MEC cannot accomplish it's task? I mean, really.. Even for you ALPA diehardians.. When do you get to a point where it's woefully obvious that the group "fighting" for the pilots is useless?
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Honestly, in this case, I fault the NMB. Talking to the MEC reps in MEM, I pretty much agree with where they want to go. There's just a giant brick wall in front of us. You can only do so much within the confines of the RLA.

The sad thing is, it's not like we're asking for the moon. We just really want what all the other airlines already have.
 
kellwolf said:
Todd, did you read the company's "improvement" for retirement?
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Yeah, it sucked. I'm not saying that you should have taken it. Far from it. I was just pointing out that from their perspective, they did offer something, so it's not accurate to say that they offered nothing in exchange for their insurance concessions proposal. What they offered just wasn't close to being good enough.
 
kellwolf said:
Honestly, in this case, I fault the NMB. Talking to the MEC reps in MEM, I pretty much agree with where they want to go. There's just a giant brick wall in front of us. You can only do so much within the confines of the RLA.

The sad thing is, it's not like we're asking for the moon. We just really want what all the other airlines already have.
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Fault whoever you want.. It's your perogative.. ;)

I fault the MEC for the direction they took us over the last 5 years.. I fault the NMB as well for allowing it to continue to go on like it has..

Our MEC over the last 5 years has failed to accomplish anything..
The NMB iced us because they knew 9E was buying XJ.. It's that simple..
 
Tram said:
I fault the MEC for the direction they took us over the last 5 years.. I fault the NMB as well for allowing it to continue to go on like it has..

Our MEC over the last 5 years has failed to accomplish anything..
The NMB iced us because they knew 9E was buying XJ.. It's that simple..
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Which MEC, though? There was a shake up about half way through, and more shaking up after TA1 was blasted down. Actually, that shake up FINISHED after TA1 was blasted. It was started before the TA even made it to the pilot group.

We've proven we're our own worst enemies. When things get tough, we don't band together. We tear each other apart like rabid wolverines fighting over a dead rabbit. Case in point: as soon as we were iced by the NMB, rather than pulling together to fight management as a solidified group, we start attacking each other. I predict in about a week it's gonna devolve into junior vs senior pilots.....again. There will be MEC recall votes put forth because the senior guys don't think they're being stroked enough, and insults will be tossed because us junior guys think the senior pilots are willing to sell us out because they already "paid their dues" and we should, too. Management will laugh all the way to their cost savings bank while we fight, bicker and squabble. The NC will change for about the fourth time since I'VE been here, and pilots will continue to fly fast, block out early and pick up as much open time as they can get their hands on. Then they'll complain how management doesn't treat us fairly and won't cut us a deal.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
That's a pretty crazy assumption. I can assure you that the Board doesn't make decisions based on that sort of event.
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How can you assure me? Are you a member of the board? Are you privy to the info the members of the board get to view?

As far as I am concerned the board is a misrun organization that I currently have zero faith in... Look at 9E's current situation.. They ice us after the company asks for concessions? I'd be one thing if we were asking for a FDX contract.. We're just trying to NOT be the bottom feeders of the regionals anymore.. I guess that's too much to ask...


kellwolf said:
Which MEC, though? There was a shake up about half way through, and more shaking up after TA1 was blasted down. Actually, that shake up FINISHED after TA1 was blasted. It was started before the TA even made it to the pilot group.
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Exactly man.. Which MEC? Obviously every MEC since the contract became amendable has been unable to get anything accomplished, or am I wrong?

kellwolf said:
Case in point: as soon as we were iced by the NMB, rather than pulling together to fight management as a solidified group, we start attacking each other.
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How do we "fight management?" How do you propose we fight management?

I've only been here 3.5 years and I'm a lowly FO so I only have so much power, but from the CA's I fly with, there is very little "fighting management" going on..

The ONLY way we can "fight management" is with the parking brake and unfortunately, I only get to turn one every 1.76 years..
 
Tram said:
As far as I am concerned the board is a misrun organization that I currently have zero faith in... Look at 9E's current situation.. They ice us after the company asks for concessions? I'd be one thing if we were asking for a FDX contract.. We're just trying to NOT be the bottom feeders of the regionals anymore.. I guess that's too much to ask...
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I have to agree with my comrade in misery here. I've lost all faith in the NMB after this last round. It's not like we're asking for the moon, just what every one else already has.

Exactly man.. Which MEC? Obviously every MEC since the contract became amendable has been unable to get anything accomplished, or am I wrong?
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No argument here, but I don't see how more in-fighting is gonna be productive. That's all I'm saying.

How do we "fight management?" How do you propose we fight management?

I've only been here 3.5 years and I'm a lowly FO so I only have so much power, but from the CA's I fly with, there is very little "fighting management" going on..

The ONLY way we can "fight management" is with the parking brake and unfortunately, I only get to turn one every 1.76 years..
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Once again, you're right. It annoys the crap outta me to see guys blocking out with the cargo door still open, using hand signals before if the headset is broken without a briefing, letting things break "in the air" rather than at the outstation, waiving contractual rights for scheduling favors, etc, etc. And you're also right about the lack of pull from FOs. There's not much you guys can do other than be very vigilant on your walk arounds. Even then, I guarantee we'll have some CAs that blow things off even after you bring it to their attention.....at least until they find out they're not keeping the plane when they get back to the hub. I'd love to see some sort of organized "fly the contract and the FOM" push. Unfortunately, that's yet another thing that has been determined to be illegal. However, management can apparently change sick and call in honest policies on a whim and not violate the "status quo."

It's a stacked deck, and we're playing against the house.
 
kellwolf said:
No argument here, but I don't see how more in-fighting is gonna be productive. That's all I'm saying.
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Yeh, I'm not trying to fight.. I'm just offering up my opinion... I'm trying as hard as I can to get out of 121 so...
 
Tram said:
Yeh, I'm not trying to fight.. I'm just offering up my opinion... I'm trying as hard as I can to get out of 121 so...
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I think Joe and I are going to Best Buy. Wanna come, too? We could be the late night stocking crew. :)
 
kellwolf said:
I think Joe and I are going to Best Buy. Wanna come, too? We could be the late night stocking crew. :)
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May have a gig lined up flying UAV's.. Just have to decide if a "4 months deployed for 2 weeks R&R" cycle is livable.. Sorta doubt it..
 
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