Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I feel like when they’ve had multi-month notams (like when they were repaving the runway) those sometimes made an appearance on the AWOS but I could be remembering wrong.
God I miss flying in SE
Oh SWA…how many is this?
- Thread starter SurferLucas
- Start date
God I miss flying in SE
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
I give the FAA 10/10 on consistency, across the board.
I mean departing 3 minutes before officially opened I can see just being a "I'm sure it's fine" thought but not announcing or talking on CTAF and at least ensuring runway is clear is seriously head scratching. Although most Legacy or larger airline crews are definitely not non towered proficient. I had an American once divert to a joint air base that normally has a busy military approach and tower, but was closed. After I changed him to advisory he came back and asked for a landing clearance, I told him I cannot provide that clearance as I do not own nor know anything about the airport environment. I watched him go around then do one loop in the pattern and I guess then decide he was ok to land..... Made for a funny moment.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I don’t think our dispatch filters it. For instance I think we were still getting numbers for SFO 28L for the several months it was closed. Could be remembering wrong tho since we always took off the 1s when I was working. Do know that when a runway has temp obstacles we still also get the normal data which can be a bit of a trap.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
My fleet spends a relatively lot of time in the non-towered environment. Fortunately, my previous lives had a super solid background in non-towered and non-radar environments, and my personal flying has kept me up to speed as well.
You HAVE to bring your "A" game, which can be a challenge at 0500. What is an easy departure at noon with the tower open becomes an unwieldy mess at 0500 with de-icing, plowing, random NOTAMs, getting clearances/releases from the RCO, etc. And that's assuming no other traffic. Not only are there plenty of challenges, but it really can get you out of your groove.
121 adds whole layers of additional drama. What would have been no big deal in a Bonanza turns into a complicated mess 121. You have to slow down, check the boxes, have both people in the loop and paying attention. If your partner isn't super up to date on non-tower ops, you need to slow to a crawl and make sure they're with the program.
You HAVE to bring your "A" game, which can be a challenge at 0500. What is an easy departure at noon with the tower open becomes an unwieldy mess at 0500 with de-icing, plowing, random NOTAMs, getting clearances/releases from the RCO, etc. And that's assuming no other traffic. Not only are there plenty of challenges, but it really can get you out of your groove.
121 adds whole layers of additional drama. What would have been no big deal in a Bonanza turns into a complicated mess 121. You have to slow down, check the boxes, have both people in the loop and paying attention. If your partner isn't super up to date on non-tower ops, you need to slow to a crawl and make sure they're with the program.
FlyChicaga
Vintage Restoration
I was thinking this. I do not use 121 apps, so I am just going back to the days of paper dispatch releases and a highlighter. Now that I use ForeFlight, we have so much information at our fingertips in a pretty solid format. It’s so easy to swap between charts, airport diagrams, NOTAMS, traffic, etc.
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
I can’t imagine, with the added safety benefits (and associated stress reduction) of having an operating tower, not waiting or slowing down or something for 3 minutes for one to open.
I have this image in my mind of SWA absolutely busting it with the paperwork, blitzing through the checklists while taxiing 30kts, and almost running over a truck just to get airborne 180s earlier.
But fear not, they arrived at the gate in BWI 23mins early.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
As I tell my SO, when she bugs me about this: "I wasn't there, I'm not going to speculate, it will all come out in time". That said, this is one instance where you say "we get there when we get there".
Back in the day, I flew with a guy who was completely oblivious to non-towered ops. This was a time when Flight Service had a bigger role, and they were efficient and consistent. This guy had zero knowledge of them because he had never been in that environment in his entire career, but he was also aggressive about it.
He questioned the well laid book procedures that we were following. I mean, it was literally a textbook example of what to do, but this guy was having none of it. I tried to switch to "super patient CFI mode", but it was so bad every time I tried to "reset" to a lower level of of knowledge to find SOME common point of reference, he just looked at me like I was crazy and said "that can't be right".
In my youthful impetuousness, I finally became exasperated and asked "didn't you ever read the AIM"? "What's that?"
These days I would have just set the parking brake and started from scratch.
We finally got going and he said "I'm not comfortable with any of this. I'm going to see the chief pilot when we get in". You could literally hear my eyeballs roll back in my head, and said "have at it man". Last I heard of it, and never flew with that guy again.
roundout
VNAV monitor
Maybe it's a 737 thing. At my last airline if guard wasn't cued up so that it was active as soon as you were done with Ramp, you were a slacker FO.
ShortField
No one of consequence
Ya I was hoping you would remember. It’s been a while since we were landing on the Alpha.
I’ll take pictures this evening. There will be another bid someday and the time you spent not flying there will be a distant memory. I found 61/62 was pretty readily available in open time during the fall and winter when I did a brief guest appearance in SEA.
I think you’re right. A few summers ago when 33 was closed all summer in ANC we were not only getting performance for it, but also filed on the NOEND, which only launches off 33.
SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
I will judge you and not buy multiple beers if you leave ramp up, HA!
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Not sure if it’s guppy or Eskimo, but most dudes seem to only talk on 2 when talking to ops. All ATC comms including ramp seems to go through 1.
SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
Can’t use Flaps 2 or VHF2….oh Alaska… hehe
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
I used to hate having departure times right when the tower opened. There’d be 5 planes all pushing and trying to do what was most convenient for them, then the tower would open half way to the runway and would half to sort it out. I was only a voting member of the flight crew, but I’d always vote to drop the brake and just wait.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
IF, and that's IF you know what you're doing, there is no harm departing, especially if the conditions favor it. But you need to understand that one Cherokee or Challenger unsure of that field's IFR procedures can dork up your entire program, and you might wind up just waiting anyway.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
No harm at all, but generally it was a s show and I found it way easier to wait.
roundout
VNAV monitor
I actually
Now when I switch I have to advise the CA which radio. Big deal, not really I guess, but just adds another "thing which could be done wrong" to the threat matrix.
FunBus did it this way (in the FOM, even) too, And I liked it as a CA because I never had to wonder which radio we were on or who we were talking to. "Does it involve me changing the trajectory of the airplane? Then I'm on the right radio."
Now when I switch I have to advise the CA which radio. Big deal, not really I guess, but just adds another "thing which could be done wrong" to the threat matrix.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Yeah I've seen that level of expertise wait on a full gate at the destination so many times I learned to just stop trying. Unless the FO has an agenda I can help out with I'd be in the drop the brake and wait camp.
Those 2 minutes saved are going to cost the SWA crew days/months in headaches.
roundout
VNAV monitor
Dropping the brake and sitting there drinking coffee while everyone else is losing their mind trying to depart is definitely the correct move.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
one fun part of doing back side of the clock work in a place where you have wild solstice swings was that moment of “uhhhh is the tower open or not it’s been (broad daylight/pitch dark) for at least 12 hours
