Oh SFO tower

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Jesus CC imagine taking the controller side on this because of your inflated ego and hatred for a specific airline. The lady clearly was looking to argue. It’s a cringe audio to listen to from controller as the crew was way more respectful and patient than most would be.

Sorry we aren’t all the same level of aviator as you for briefing every runway and getting your numbers switched in a flash! Then again, you probably roasted Delta for briefing too long or too many options!

Never ends! This lady and you probably would get along! Blind date!!!!

Respectfully if we watched the same video, the controller gave them an ample chance to hold short to prepare themselves. They accepted a LUAW. She wanted them off the runway and the "next time give us more than 30 seconds" comment then set the rest of the situation off.

 

[zmiller4]

Not really. She was correct, so you aren’t ready. Exit the runway.

“Well I guess you need more than two minutes” [sarcastically].

They weren’t ready, they exited the runway, she threw some snark, they threw some back.

Unsurprisingly, you’re the one making some kind of deal out of this,

Are you sure it’s not residual bitterness because you didn’t meet DAL’s hiring requirements until you upgraded at Alaska to get some PIC time, by which point you weren’t willing to take a pay cut?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

“Well I guess you need more than two minutes” [sarcastically].

They weren’t ready, they exited the runway, she threw some snark, they threw some back.

Unsurprisingly, you’re the one making some kind of deal out of this,

Are you sure it’s not residual bitterness because you didn’t meet DAL’s hiring requirements until you upgraded at Alaska to get some PIC time, by which point you weren’t willing to take a pay cut?

Irrelevant personal attack will be ignored.

I’ve posted many VASA videos here, of various airlines or corporate and GA. Stop getting offended.

 

[zmiller4]

Irrelevant personal attack will be ignored.

I’ve posted many VASA videos here, of various airlines or corporate and GA. Stop getting offended.

I’m sorry you’ll never make it to your dream airline, but you don’t need to spam the forums with non-event atc tapes.

 

[MikeD]

Like I said. This one isn’t difficult. For both ends: stay off the runway if you aren’t ready.

To pilots: handle issues off the active runway. Don’t accept, or insist on, a lineup and wait until you are ready to go. Sitting on a runway with landing traffic behind you that you have no awareness of, can lead to bad things.

To ATC: though your expectation is that jets will be ready at the end, if they advise you that they aren’t ready, then don’t place them on an active runway in lineup and wait. Issue a hold short until they are ready. That way, landings can still happen at least, and without a safety hazard of an aircraft sitting on a runway. Would also avoid the need for any go arounds by landing traffic.

The whole time expectation thing: it’s very possible that it would’ve taken only a few minutes to make this change. But anything can happen….FMS doesn’t take the inputs, things don’t go as planned, time passes faster than expected, etc. A lot safer for everyone involved, flight crews to ATC, to handle that stuff off of an active runway. Not on one.

 

[form810]

Ehh, I'm with the crew on this one. I've been in that exact situation at SFO before an I insisted we hold short, especially because what I think would have taken a few minutes ended up being well north the time estimate and traffic was ten miles out, which created an operational threat in my cockpit.

It's not a matter of a simple brief, it's re-entering the appropriate numbers, confirming runway/departure/first fix and then running a runway change checklist and if the other pilot isn't 100% sharp on it, it's well north of two minutes.

Editorial comments should be saved for a phone call.

We're paid by the minute.

I totally agree with don't be rushed and don't let anyone rush you. Those are almost ALWAYS good rules with rare exceptions like getting on the ground while on fire.

That said, couldn't the inside pilot put the new runway into the box with three to four button punches? Does the runway change checklist really include anything more than confirming the new fixes are actually correctly entered into the the box? Isn't everything else (altitudes, speeds, etc) included in PREVIOUSLY briefing BOTH runways.

I'll take it as humor, but I could do without the "we're paid by the minute" quip. To me, in this context, it diminishes your excellent point.

 

[MikeD]

The worst situation potential that comes to mind in a situation like this, is Skywest 5569 / USAir 1493, LAX 1991. Skywest headed to PMD, was placed in position and hold (at the time) at an intersection downfield at night (a practice allowed at the time, that subsequent to this accident, no longer allowed). Local controller forgot they were sitting there, cleared USAir to land same runway (LAX didn’t necessarily split takeoff and landing runways at the time). Skywest Metro’s tail light and beacon blended in with the surrounding runway lighting of LAX. USAir doesn’t see Skywest sitting downfield until just lowering the nose wheel to the runway after touchdown, and slams into the back of them, destroying both aircraft and with all fatal in the Skywest and a good number on USAir. A somewhat different set of circumstances that this particular incident, I know, but one where bad things can happen when sitting on a runway in position.

 

[derg]

“Well I guess you need more than two minutes” [sarcastically].

They weren’t ready, they exited the runway, she threw some snark, they threw some back.

Unsurprisingly, you’re the one making some kind of deal out of this,

Are you sure it’s not residual bitterness because you didn’t meet DAL’s hiring requirements until you upgraded at Alaska to get some PIC time, by which point you weren’t willing to take a pay cut?

Damn, cleanup on aisle nine!

I've got blood all over my cashmere sweater.

 

[derg]

That said, couldn't the inside pilot put the new runway into the box with three to four button punches? Does the runway change checklist really include anything more than confirming the new fixes are actually correctly entered into the the box? Isn't everything else (altitudes, speeds, etc) included in PREVIOUSLY briefing BOTH runways.

1. No.
2. Yes, a checklist
3. Sometimes

 

[roundout]

This thread is bananas

 

[Fixtur]

Re: USAIR 1493:

I remember sitting in the backseat of the family car (silver Volvo 240T) in the drive thru at In-N-Out off Wilbur Rd. in Newbury Park listening to NPR when the breaking news came through that there was a crash at LAX. I was ten years old.

 

[derg]

This thread is bananas

Now I have "Hollaback Girl" in my head.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Good times, 21st century, good times. I'd say it's all downhill from here!

 

[Wardogg]

Now I have "Hollaback Girl" in my head.

No Doubt

 

[derg]

No Doubt

Well played, sir. Well played!

 

[roundout]

Now I have "Hollaback Girl" in my head.

Tragic

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

So then you don’t even have to pull out the normal checklist. Just read the yoke checklist.

Question..

Is pull out the checklist a figure of speech?

And

Who updates the yoke checklist?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pilot Fighter]

DEPG ACFT GET NMBRS AND BRIEF BOTH RWYS 28L AND 28R. ...ADVS YOU HAVE INFO Z.

…with information Zulu, my brief is none of your beeswax.

 

[derg]

Even then, you can have the numbers, brief the runway in advance... if you're told to takeoff on the left side, and then it's changed to the right side, tower needs to understand that it's not just 'blast off'.

Lemme go look at the 737 checklist, slight pause... there are nine checklist items, Five are "challenge/respond", two are I don't know, narrative-style answers? All completed AFTER changing the runway, potentially the departure, inserting new takeoff numbers, confirming performance, etc.

If it happened to me, I'd certainly ASAP that for data collection.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

1. No.
2. Yes, a checklist
3. Sometimes

@form810 yes, on the 737 it's fairly simple.

Route page. 28L execute. N1. Takeoff page. Accept.

Done.

(Assuming you don't have to change the VNAV E/O Accel height, if you do, next page and enter the value).

Now it's just verifying time.

Heading, Alt, V2 on MCP,
Baro accel on PFD,
Flaps, stab trim, first fix in FMS.
Discuss E/O