Oh, Boeing

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Share with us, without googling, what you know about the doors on the DC-10 and specifically what the problem was.

Read thoroughly ‘Air Disaster Volume I’ by MacArthur Job. It has a very thorough write up about AA, Turkish, DC10, and politics in general. The drawings showed and explained the locking mechanism fault.

Also have Volume II, III, and the Prop Era (IV).

I’m not much of a reader, but the Air Disaster volumes by Job are 4 volumes I’ve read each numerous times.

 

[derg]

Oh god.

Welp, there's our first problem.

 

[srleslie]

That’s a joke right? Have you read about the Beirut accident?

Not a joke. I didn't say perfect. I'd say it's on par with the US legacy airlines in terms of safety, most of which have had multiple crashes except for Southwest.

The FAA gives Ethiopia Airlines a 1 rating, the safety rating possible.

 

[zmiller4]

Avoiding a who knows how long trial and associated coverage.

Wrong. It’s a legal admission of guilt.

But then again, you do tend to make up your own rules for the US legal system.

 

[Inverted]

“Never been grounded” isn’t a good look talking point.


After the AA DC10 cargo door blew out and it emergency landed at DTW, the fleet should have been grounded. The locking mechanism was faulty, and the NTSB knew it. McDonnell Douglas was too powerful, and used pressure to not ground the DC10 platform. Not 2 yrs later, the same problem on a Turkish DC10 cargo door blew. This time, a fatal hull loss, 300+ people dead. Then the door was fixed.

That’s one good example. One might argue the rudder hard over was another issue. After the UA and the US, maybe it should have been grounded. Never was.

If this was the USA, FAA, and NTSB of the 70s and 80s, the MAX wouldn’t have been grounded.

Except The DC10 door wasn't surrounded by a lack of FAA oversight, corruption, and lies. It is one thing to have a design flaw, it is another to willfully build a design flaw into an airplane band-aided by a new system nobody knows about, and having two fatal accidents killing everyone on board in a short amount of time to only THEN discover how this airplane was shipped to customers.

THAT WAS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG FOR BOEING AND THE 737

These are completely different topics of discussion dude.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Oh god.

Welp, there's our first problem.

What? Reading factual volumes on accident history?


I’ll take that over whatever angst you seem to have over the DC10 debacle. Where are you coming from?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Except The DC10 door wasn't surrounded by a lack of FAA oversight, corruption, and lies. It is one thing to have a design flaw, it is another to willfully build a design flaw into an airplane band-aided by a new system nobody knows about, and having two fatal accidents killing everyone on board in a short amount of time to only THEN discover how this airplane was shipped to customers.

THAT WAS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG FOR BOEING AND THE 737

These are completely different topics of discussion dude.

William Langewiesche said it best, in the New York Times….



It’s worth a read:

What Really Brought Down the Boeing 737 Max? (Published 2019)

Malfunctions caused two deadly crashes. But an industry that puts unprepared pilots in the cockpit is just as guilty.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Not a joke. I didn't say perfect. I'd say it's on par with the US legacy airlines in terms of safety, most of which have had multiple crashes except for Southwest.

The FAA gives Ethiopia Airlines a 1 rating, the safety rating possible.

Meh. I look at past accident history and recent safety record. There’s only 2 airlines I’d fly in the entire continent of Africa. South African Airways and Royal Air Maroc. I’m a hard pass on any other carrier on that continent.

 

[Inverted]

William Langewiesche said it best, in the New York Times….



It’s worth a read:

What Really Brought Down the Boeing 737 Max? (Published 2019)

Malfunctions caused two deadly crashes. But an industry that puts unprepared pilots in the cockpit is just as guilty.

www.nytimes.com

He didn’t say it best, you just agree with it.

 

[derg]

What? Reading factual volumes on accident history?


I’ll take that over whatever angst you seem to have over the DC10 debacle. Where are you coming from?

The question was what you knew not what you read.

"I'm a math genius, I read Algebra I and Algebra II on the flight out here"

No need, we're about to go 'circular logic' anyway and you only have two replies left before I ignore you for the day!

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

The question was what you knew not what you read.

"I'm a math genius, I read Algebra I and Algebra II on the flight out here"

No need, we're about to go 'circular logic' anyway and you only have two replies left before I ignore you for the day!

Of that accident, I know from what I read, and I cited the source. I’m not going engage in that much further. You are free to read up about it yourself, if you cared (narrator: you don’t).

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

He didn’t say it best, you just agree with it.

But what he wrote is true. There’s a reason these crashes happened where they did. And not, say, Canada, USA, or Europe.

 

[Beep]

After the verdict they can appeal to the Supreme Court and be found not guilty by reason of profitability.

 

[Inverted]

But what he wrote is true. There’s a reason these crashes happened where they did. And not, say, Canada, USA, or Europe.

No, he wrote an opinion piece that you happen to align with. It leaves a lot of components completely out of the equation.

 

[ERfly]

What? Reading factual volumes on accident history?


I’ll take that over whatever angst you seem to have over the DC10 debacle. Where are you coming from?

And what Douglas type ratings do you hold?

Also, I'm sure you're aware that the "debacle" you speak of and the subsequent media outrage and grounding of the DC-10 in the late 70s had absolutely nothing do with the cargo door issue that was fixed 6 years earlier and also had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Douglas, right?

I'd also argue that the DC-10 is probably one of the finest airplanes ever built.

 

[HJB]

But what he wrote is true. There’s a reason these crashes happened where they did. And not, say, Canada, USA, or Europe.

Surly it would have been different with you on board? People that don’t think it could happen to them, are one bad day from being humbled.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Surly it would have been different with you on board? People that don’t think it could happen to them, are one bad day from being humbled.

So close to happening to me. I’m sure if it had the armchair QBing would be out of this world.

I just got lucky.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Surly it would have been different with you on board? People that don’t think it could happen to them, are one bad day from being humbled.

Let’s re-focus on the subject of fast NY Times article. I didn’t say anything about myself.

The sad reality is these pilots were not aviators, they were button pushers.

 

[Inverted]

Ok then..

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

And what Douglas type ratings do you hold?

Also, I'm sure you're aware that the "debacle" you speak of and the subsequent media outrage and grounding of the DC-10 in the late 70s had absolutely nothing do with the cargo door issue that was fixed 6 years earlier and also had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Douglas, right?

I'd also argue that the DC-10 is probably one of the finest airplanes ever built.

Correct, I was not referring to AA 191.


I don’t need a type rating to read about airline crash history. It’s actually a hobby, in terms of reading up on airline accident history books, and watching ACI, then looking up those accidents further online. I feel that everyone owes it to themselves to read up about the situations that caused accidents in the past, so we can learn from it and prevent the future one.