Oh Boeing… again 🤬

[ZapBrannigan]

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeing-withdraws-bid-safety-exemption-boeing-737-max-7-2024-01-30/

Boeing withdrew their request to certify the Max -7 (and Max -10) without changes to the anti-ice system.

For those who are unaware, the 737 doesn’t have an ice detector or automatic cowl anti-ice. It relies on the crew to turn on and off the cowl anti ice in icing conditions. On the NG, if you forget to turn it off for a while it’s no big deal. On the Max, apparently there is a very slim chance that if you operate it in dry air at a very specific combination of temperature, altitude, phase of the moon etc.… the cowl lip might get too hot, come apart, puncture the fuselage and whatnot.

Boeing wanted to certify the Max -7 anyway based on millions of hours flown with the -8 with no issues, while they work on a fix which they said would take several years.

After the Alaska incident several congress critters said “no more exemptions!”. They already gave Boeing a get out of jail free card on EICAS for the -7 and -10. They’re mad about loose rudder bolts and apparently missing door bolts. So Boeing rescinded their request.

That means waiting for a fix which is likely to add several years to the -7 timeline. Which is no big deal unless you need to replace an aging fleet of hundreds of -700s…

Airbus has no capacity for additional lines to fill that demand. Even if they did they’re dealing with their own P&W GTF issues and apparently an EASA mandate to check for spar cracks.

Embraer doesn’t have anything that can carry 150 pax with the range the -7 promised.

This is bad.

 

[Inverted]

Well, it sounds like they will redesign the cowl lip, finally.

100% for sure, this withdrawal of the exemption request was at the behest of the FAA and honestly, it is a really good first step to doing things right at Boeing. The fact that Boeing even made this request is utterly freaking insane and is a perfect example of the cognitive dissonance and cultural issues that Boeing possesses.

Here is the funny thing about pressure, you'd be surprised how quickly Beoing solves this issue when it affects their ability to sell airplanes. I can't stand this about companies. Boeing wants to kick the can of rocks down the road over and over and over simply because they want to sell airplanes. "oh we can't sell and deliver MAX7's because of his cowl lip issue and we will go out of business so FAA please let us sell them anyway."

Watch how freaking quickly a fix happens now. I bet the cowl lip is redesigned or reengineered in 6 months and is ready to go.

 

[Fixtur]

Couldn't they just put a 10 minute timer and an indicator light and tone in the cockpit somewhere?

"Ding! Do you still want this on?" Reset if yes, oh oops no if not.

 

[Cessnaflyer]

Couldn't they just put a 10 minute timer and an indicator light and tone in the cockpit somewhere?

"Ding! Do you still want this on?" Reset if yes, oh oops no if not.

“Ding fries are done!”

I do not miss this with the Hawker and the wet wing.

 

[A300Capt]

We had ice detectors on all the fleets I flew at Brown if memory serves me correctly. The MD11 fleet had some ex-JAL birds with the auto anti- ice feature. Use to weird me out late at night sometimes to look up at the overhead and see blue lights for the “anti-ice on“ vs having to manually turn them on. Was a nice, cool feature…just a little freaky.

 

[arkflyr]

Rumor I've heard is that it is an airflow separation issue around the cowling and Boeing's solution is to put vortex generators on there to keep it attached and cool the inlet. That is a schoolhouse/checkairman Ferris passed out a 31 flavors sourced rumor so you know it's true.

As for the certification of the MAX-7 Aviation Week's podcast has had a bunch of reporting on this. The short of it is the FAA and Boeing are learning together how to certify airplanes under the new rules and risk assessment requirements therefore they chose the -7 as it is the closest to an existing certified airplane, it is just a shrunken MAX-8, and then do the -10, followed by the 777X. This way they can get a baseline of the requirements figured out and build from there with the expectation that the certification times go back down.

Who really knows what is going to happen now, the only two thoughts I have are that with has bad as this is Boeing got away with one here as the door incident could have been catastrophic, and the anti-ice and door are two different problems and maybe the solutions can be solved concurrently.

This by no means should be interpreted as a defense of Boeing, I think it is a Jack Welchian pile of excrement these days and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

 

[mightynimbus]

Couldn't they just put a 10 minute timer and an indicator light and tone in the cockpit somewhere?

"Ding! Do you still want this on?" Reset if yes, oh oops no if not.

 

[Murdoughnut]

At this point can we just crowdsource to buy the 757 design from Boeing?

 

[MikeD]

Never should’ve sold off those AirTran 717s……

 

[Boris Badenov]

I do not miss this with the Hawker and the wet wing.

Only the plucky British could put basically an egg-timer in the overhead and maintain a straight face (with a stiff upper lip).

 

[SurferLucas]

Only the plucky British could put basically an egg-timer in the overhead and maintain a straight face (with a stiff upper lip).

In the immortal words of Jeremy Clarkson “everything was just ‘that’ll do’” (whilst discussing the build quality of British Leyland automobiles)

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Couldn't they just put a 10 minute timer and an indicator light and tone in the cockpit somewhere?

"Ding! Do you still want this on?" Reset if yes, oh oops no if not.

The 747 has that on our planes without auto anti ice. If it’s not being detected or the temp goes above 10c it reminds you that it’s not needed.

Doesn’t exactly sound like an insurmountable task to fix it.

 

[ASpilot2be]

Only the plucky British could put basically an egg-timer in the overhead and maintain a straight face (with a stiff upper lip).

Our LAN Chile 777s have an egg timer for some reason.

 

[Roger Roger]

You already get a scratchpad message don’t you?

 

[Itchy]

Better stop crushing the old ones in the desert and apply cpr.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

SWA prepared to wait,

Southwest prepared to wait for delayed Boeing MAX 7s, executive says

DUBLIN (Reuters) -Southwest Airlines is willing to wait until 2026 or 2027 if necessary to take delivery of Boeing 737 MAX 7 aircraft, a senior executive said on Tuesday after safety concerns were likely to delay production. Southwest, the largest customer of the MAX 7, has already switched...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Murdoughnut]

SWA prepared to wait,

Southwest prepared to wait for delayed Boeing MAX 7s, executive says

DUBLIN (Reuters) -Southwest Airlines is willing to wait until 2026 or 2027 if necessary to take delivery of Boeing 737 MAX 7 aircraft, a senior executive said on Tuesday after safety concerns were likely to delay production. Southwest, the largest customer of the MAX 7, has already switched...

finance.yahoo.com

They waited years to implement a functioning reservation system, why stop now?

 

[Burrito]

"Dude, Where's My 757?"

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

SWA prepared to wait,

Southwest prepared to wait for delayed Boeing MAX 7s, executive says

DUBLIN (Reuters) -Southwest Airlines is willing to wait until 2026 or 2027 if necessary to take delivery of Boeing 737 MAX 7 aircraft, a senior executive said on Tuesday after safety concerns were likely to delay production. Southwest, the largest customer of the MAX 7, has already switched...

finance.yahoo.com

Southwest is a large reason why the 737 is what it is today.

 

[Apophis]

"Dude, Where's My 757?"

Getting rid of the 757 will be the dumbest thing Boeing ever did. Whoever was responsible for that decision should be doomed to ride in the 2nd 737 Jumpseat until the day they kick the bucket.

No breaks to stand. No leaving the flight deck. Just cross the country back and forth forever in the piece of garbage Frankenstein you forced upon everybody.

I hope appeasing Southworst was worth it. Fools.