Oh Alaska/Boeing

HJB said:
Hopefully. Then again, this is corporate America we’re talking about.
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Totally waiting here to see the company get a slap on the wrist, the C-suite to keep on doing a heck of a job, and everyone else to stand around and go “well there’s really not much we could’ve done.”
 
It's really simple.


"Door opened" versus "door removed."


Both require 4 bolts to be removed.


But only a "door removed" required a re-inspection to ensure the 4 bolts were added back on.


Work was officially written up as "door opened."


No follow up work required to ensure 4 bolts were on. Because the procedure written up this way didn't require it.


This is literally what happened. Why the Congressional hearings and criminal investigations?


Obviously we know now that if both procedures required 4 bolts to be removed, then both procedures should have had a re-inspection to ensure bolts secured both on. This problem is now fixed, and a blow out will not occur again.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
It's really simple.


"Door opened" versus "door removed."


Both require 4 bolts to be removed.


But only a "door removed" required a re-inspection to ensure the 4 bolts were added back on.


Work was officially written up as "door opened."


No follow up work required to ensure 4 bolts were on. Because the procedure written up this way didn't require it.


This is literally what happened. Why the Congressional hearings and criminal investigations?


Obviously we know now that if both procedures required 4 bolts to be removed, then both procedures should have had a re-inspection to ensure bolts secured both on. This problem is now fixed, and a blow out will not occur again.
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Interesting take, considering Boeing has no records of the work being performed.

www.seattletimes.com

Boeing admits it can’t find records on the Alaska Airlines door plug work

Boeing admitted in a letter to Congress that it can't find a documented record of the work done on the Alaska Airlines door plug and said no record may exist.
www.seattletimes.com www.seattletimes.com
 
roundout said:
Totally waiting here to see the company get a slap on the wrist, the C-suite to keep on doing a heck of a job, and everyone else to stand around and go “well there’s really not much we could’ve done.”
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Several of us sat around the pad and watched "Downfall" (the Boeing documentary, not the Hitler movie) - even though we were loosely familiar with it, the piece was a bit eye-opening and, this was probably intentional by the makers, a bit anger-inducing.

The fact that they had the ability to do a $2.5BN settlement to avoid criminal prosecution....ugh....
 
killbilly said:
Several of us sat around the pad and watched "Downfall" (the Boeing documentary, not the Hitler movie) - even though we were loosely familiar with it, the piece was a bit eye-opening and, this was probably intentional by the makers, a bit anger-inducing.

The fact that they had the ability to do a $2.5BN settlement to avoid criminal prosecution....ugh....
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There shouldn’t be anything criminal about MCAS. Everyone has already forgotten the Lion Air plane had the same issue the day before the crash, and a more competent crew handled it just fine and continued to Jakarta and wrote it up improperly.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
There shouldn’t be anything criminal about MCAS. Everyone has already forgotten the Lion Air plane had the same issue the day before the crash, and a more competent crew handled it just fine and continued to Jakarta and wrote it up improperly.
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I’m sure you’d feel differently if your wife and kids were on those planes. In the meantime go color, and leave this to the people that are qualified.
 
HJB said:
I’m sure you’d feel differently if your wife and kids were on those planes. In the meantime go color, and leave this to the people that are qualified.
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There are many airlines in the world I’d refuse to fly my family on. Lion Air and Ethiopian both on that list.
 
HJB said:
If that’s the case I’d recommend you never sit on a safety committee. They’d never fly again.
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Nah. Let’s start with the basic fact that Lion Air was banned from other parts of the world from operating, like the EU.

When they placed that large 737 order, during the Obama admin, no one questioned how this would be a good thing considering they’ve been banned by the European authorities from operating inside their space.
 
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roundout said:
A Boeing employee literally bragged that he misled the FAA.


This is a bug, not a feature.
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Read the context of that, he said it was unintentional.


And no, the second part shows the airplane was absolutely controllable, had they been competent pilots and not button pushers. The Lion Air Capt was able to keep it safe / stable. His problem was a FO with dyslexia who couldn’t help with jack. In his desperation he gave the FO the controls so he could read the QRH himself. Unfortunately, he didn’t brief the incompetent FO to use the trim switch constantly. FO knew only to push/pull the yoke. All dead.

Ethiopian, stick shaker from the onset at takeoff and 3 times the CA (pilot flying) asked for the AP on! AP on. AP on. That tells you all you need to know that this is a button pushing crew, not an aviator crew. All dead.




More competent pilots should - and would - have handled it properly and made a safe landing. As was shown the day prior for Lion Air.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Read the context of that, he said it was unintentional.


And no, the second part shows the airplane was absolutely controllable, had they been competent pilots and not button pushers. The Lion Air Capt was able to keep it safe / stable. His problem was a FO with dyslexia who couldn’t help with jack. In his desperation he gave the FO the controls so he could read the QRH himself. Unfortunately, he didn’t brief the incompetent FO to use the trim switch constantly. FO knew only to push/pull the yoke. All dead.

Ethiopian, stick shaker from the onset at takeoff and 3 times the CA (pilot flying) asked for the AP on! AP on. AP on. That tells you all you need to know that this is a button pushing crew, not an aviator crew. All dead.




More competent pilots should - and would - have handled it properly and made a safe landing. As was shown the day prior for Lion Air.
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While this is true, I don’t think it makes Boeing less culpable.
 
NovemberEcho said:
Perhaps lesser competent crews would have figured it out if they’d been told about it
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But they were told. After Lion Air, the whole world knew about MCAS. There was a safety alert issued in regards to how to handle the situation. By then, pilots even knew that extending the flaps to 1 would stop MCAS. While I can see Lion Air, there really was no excuse for Ethiopian to happen. They should have cutout the stab trim switches sooner and pulled their throttles back to control the airplane's flight path. But again, this was a button pusher crew, and no where in their noggin did it compute to touch the thrust levers. "It's set where it needs to be!"
 
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