Oh Alaska/Boeing

NovemberEcho said:
Speaking from ignorance, can AS be held accountable for keeping the plane flying with the pressurization warning light coming on repeatedly on prior flights?
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If they were following properly approved procedures…no. Or, they shouldn’t be under a just safety culture. Obviously the FAA keeps that as a top priority when not busting YouTube inspection pass videos.
 
Four logical principles of the corporate world that put everything into proper context:
  • The probability of remediation is tied to a mathematical evaluation of risk
  • ... not the risk of an adverse event, but the risk of professional/financial consequences to individual actors
  • Removing consequences results in a lower evaluation of risk
  • Remediation is unlikely absent consequence
Case and point - the guy who led the effort to keep the government from requiring additional pilot training for the MAX was never criminally charged, and landed on his feet elsewhere. Zero consequence, low risk, no impetus for remediation.
 
NovemberEcho said:
Speaking from ignorance, can AS be held accountable for keeping the plane flying with the pressurization warning light coming on repeatedly on prior flights?
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It was a controller issue that so far, sounds like it has been deemed unrelated. To be clear, there was never an actual pressurization issue on that airplane, but rather a pressurization controller issue from the best I can understand.
 
Murdoughnut said:
Four logical principles of the corporate world that put everything into proper context:
  • The probability of remediation is tied to a mathematical evaluation of risk
  • ... not the risk of an adverse event, but the risk of professional/financial consequences to individual actors
  • Removing consequences results in a lower evaluation of risk
  • Remediation is unlikely absent consequence
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This is spot on, and exactly what I saw during the time I worked there. Management at all levels, from frontline to directors, was basically on a 3 year churn. They would parachute in from another department, often unrelated, having little to no working knowledge of what they were getting tasked to lead. They would spend their 3 years trying to make the spreadsheets look good in the short term, hoping that it would lead them to a promotion. When the truth hits that their actions have severely neutered a program, they're already enjoying their higher rank in another unrelated department and it's somebody else's problem now. Of course they're never held accountable. Plus, this sole focus on personal career gain at all costs encouraged not bothering your higher ups and becoming a yes man. Textbook definition of sharking it to the top instead of gaining recognition by putting out a solid product
 
“NTSB now says the four bolts that hold the Boeing 737 Max 9 door plug in place WERE MISSING at the time of last month’s blowout on Alaska Airlines flight 1282.”

“NTSB preliminary report: Door plug bolts WERE REMOVED AT THE BOEING FACTORY in Renton for rivet work in September 2023. Photo obtained by NTSB showed bolts still missing when work was completed.”

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View: https://twitter.com/petemuntean/status/1754960964246520013
 
So that Boeing guy in the news comment section was 100% accurate. He said he'll save everyone the trouble, all 4 bolts were missing, that's what the NTSB will discover.
 
NovemberEcho said:
Speaking from ignorance, can AS be held accountable for keeping the plane flying with the pressurization warning light coming on repeatedly on prior flights?
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We're gonna hold you accountable!



"For what?"



For following correct MEL and Boeing manufacturer procedures for a master caution light and associated system.


:insert smirk face:
 
Inverted said:
I really want to know how the Boeing CEO still has a job...
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Meh.

Somebody on the factory floor's job was to remove the 4 plugs, AFTER it came in from Spirit.

That same somebody should absolutely 100% have it in him, to know to re-install those 4 bolts back, before he can breathe a sigh of relief from his work.
 
Inverted said:
I really want to know how the Boeing CEO still has a job...
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So there's the President and CEO of Boeing, Davord Calhoun

But there's also President and CEO of Boeing Commercial Aircraft, Stanley Dealy.

But also Chair of, Quality Operations Council and Vice President, Total Quality, Boeing Commercial Airplanes, Carolae Murae.

And also Chair of Boeing Manufacturing Operations Council and Vice President, Manufacturing and Safety, Boeing Commercial Airplanes, Kimbly Pastegly

There are only errors to be corrected, no blame. No bucks stop anywhere because they are a team with enough overlapping responsibility and combined roles that accountability is diluted to the point of being "too big" and extensive to remove responsible parties without decapitating the company's operations (in tehory) and so the only change would be how mostly the same people (who chose nose to open their parachute) are organized in some equivalent new way with different titles.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Meh.

Somebody on the factory floor's job was to remove the 4 plugs, AFTER it came in from Spirit.

That same somebody should absolutely 100% have it in him, to know to re-install those 4 bolts back, before he can breathe a sigh of relief from his work.
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This is bigger than that.

The tech responsible for putting the bolts in, and the supervisor, are already gone, I promise you that.

This is a cultural and economic problem. The 4 bolts are honestly a small portion of the bigger systemic issues at Boeing. CEOs have been canned or resigned for much less. The CEO is responsible for the direction of the company and he drove it right into the crapper. The company will forever have a black mark in it's history that is directly related to leadership choices.
 
derg said:
I pay for three, but I do online delivery.

My hometown paper has kaput this year, though. I don't think my former hometown people realize that Google isn't going to send a crack team of reporters to Tulare to cover who is headlining the town parade.
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The MAGA takeover of a lot of bits of local government goes under-reported, incidentally.
 
Inverted said:
This is bigger than that.

The tech responsible for putting the bolts in, and the supervisor, are already gone, I promise you that.

This is a cultural and economic problem. The 4 bolts are honestly a small portion of the bigger systemic issues at Boeing. CEOs have been canned or resigned for much less. The CEO is responsible for the direction of the company and he drove it right into the crapper. The company will forever have a black mark in it's history that is directly related to leadership choices.
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The reality is, if the whistle blower comment guy is to be believed (and he should be, everything he said sounds legit), then there isn’t anything on the CEO level for this particular incident. IMO. What this comment guy said was 2 separate tracking programs, and this door wasn’t logged as officially being “opened.” And since it wasn’t logged that way, there was no MX task card to ensure it was closed with 4 bolts. So it left with no bolts. This is at least 150 levels removed from a CEO action. Again, just IMO.

Yes, it’s a terrible accident. But I think the media is going all in on the aviation fear porn (what they love doing).
 
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