Non-Union airlines..

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Firebird2XC said:
In the meanwhile, Pinnacle pilots still do not have a contract. Rather than giving a small pay raise to union pilots, Pinnacle Holdings is pouring money into their non-union 'subsidiary'. It's a merger by proxy, and they're screwing thousands in the process.
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Listen up naysayers, 'cause there it is. Plane and simple. Management is using Colgan as a tool to smack the Pinnacle guys and gals in the face. We could have had a contract done and over with about a year ago. Instead, management opted to not only buy Colgan, but take money from a contract with NWA that was signed b/c of the blood, sweat and tears of the PCL pilots and buy Colgan shiny new Q400s. Hell, I'm half surprised they didn't dangle them in our faces first a la the 76 seat jets (which were probably going to Mesaba the whole time) and the 15 CRJ-200s (which were probably ALSO going to Mesaba the whole time). As things get worse with negotiations (and they probably will), the heat is gonna get turned up.

If we actually win the lawsuit on file, we're looking at being released into a 30 day cooling off period right then. 30 days later, if we don't have a deal, Colgan pilots are likely to find themselves in an uncomfortable position with little or no way out. It wouldn't shock me in the least of our management tossed a "fly struck worse or fly somewhere else" ultimatum. Airline history is already full of management examples of it happening before. Sadly, that history is also full of pilots that went along with management.....
 
kellwolf said:
Listen up naysayers, 'cause there it is. Plane and simple. Management is using Colgan as a tool to smack the Pinnacle guys and gals in the face. We could have had a contract done and over with about a year ago. Instead, management opted to not only buy Colgan, but take money from a contract with NWA that was signed b/c of the blood, sweat and tears of the PCL pilots and buy Colgan shiny new Q400s. Hell, I'm half surprised they didn't dangle them in our faces first a la the 76 seat jets (which were probably going to Mesaba the whole time) and the 15 CRJ-200s (which were probably ALSO going to Mesaba the whole time). As things get worse with negotiations (and they probably will), the heat is gonna get turned up.

If we actually win the lawsuit on file, we're looking at being released into a 30 day cooling off period right then. 30 days later, if we don't have a deal, Colgan pilots are likely to find themselves in an uncomfortable position with little or no way out. It wouldn't shock me in the least of our management tossed a "fly struck worse or fly somewhere else" ultimatum. Airline history is already full of management examples of it happening before. Sadly, that history is also full of pilots that went along with management.....
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I would feel bad for all pilots if that happens, but to be honest with you - I hope it does! I would love to see a stand against management. But I hate to tell you, Colgan pilots would still fly. Because if they didn't, the company would fire you. And I don't think you'd have too many pilots that would put up a fight about it, so those that did would be fired. This has potential to be a really screwed up situation. Glad I'm getting the hell out of it.
 
Actually now that I think about it, Colgan wouldn't fly struck PCL routes. We don't have the aircraft nor the man power. I would think it nearly impossible. Saabs are tired up with CAL, United and Airways, Beeches are tied up with Airways. We have no available aircraft. A strike for PCL would be good. Get what you guys deserve.
 
Airdale said:
Actually now that I think about it, Colgan wouldn't fly struck PCL routes. We don't have the aircraft nor the man power. I would think it nearly impossible. Saabs are tired up with CAL, United and Airways, Beeches are tied up with Airways. We have no available aircraft. A strike for PCL would be good. Get what you guys deserve.
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yeah colgan having enough pilots to do both flying is a tough sell
 
Seggy said:
Smittey YOU are the one off base here. We do undercut everyone else with our rates. Did you read "Flying the Line?", until you do I suggest you keep quiet on saying we don't undercut anyone.
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Okay, point taken. I understand and I'm still learning. I was responding that we don't specifically undercut union-contracts.

EDIT: Let me be more clear. I guess my post was vague in nature. I specifically mean that Colgan pilots don't stand around and say, I cant wait to take over Piedmont flying, that would be awesome! We can do it cheaper!

Waiting for my copy of FTL.
 
Actually, I think Pinnacle Holdings would decide which contract is the most lucrative, and assign aircraft to fly those routes.

Granted, Colgan aircraft can't readily and immediately do that, because of paint, but don't be surprised if the aircraft acquisition plan for Colgan becomes the strike-buster plan.

All those Q300s or 200s rumored to be on order? What if Pinnacle Holdings got them in NWA colors? What then?

Trust me.. right now Colgan Air is an uncomfortable place to be. So is Pinnacle, as it were. In fact, a class or two in front of me at Eagle had a few Pinnacle pilots.

People are getting wise. Colgan Air might well be the new generation of scabs.

If that happens, good luck getting a jump seat on a flight I'm working. If I have anything to say about it, the captain will know what's up.

Scabs = Better off in another industry
 
Isn't there a way to know whether or not the route you're scheduled to fly is "struck work"? I know I heard about something like this during the time ASA was getting closer to some sort of job action.
 
Firebird2XC said:
Actually, I think Pinnacle Holdings would decide which contract is the most lucrative, and assign aircraft to fly those routes.

Granted, Colgan aircraft can't readily and immediately do that, because of paint, but don't be surprised if the aircraft acquisition plan for Colgan becomes the strike-buster plan.

All those Q300s or 200s rumored to be on order? What if Pinnacle Holdings got them in NWA colors? What then?

Trust me.. right now Colgan Air is an uncomfortable place to be. So is Pinnacle, as it were. In fact, a class or two in front of me at Eagle had a few Pinnacle pilots.

People are getting wise. Colgan Air might well be the new generation of scabs.

If that happens, good luck getting a jump seat on a flight I'm working. If I have anything to say about it, the captain will know what's up.

Scabs = Better off in another industry
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What? Step away from the paint fumes.........
 
bumblebee said:
Isn't there a way to know whether or not the route you're scheduled to fly is "struck work"? I know I heard about something like this during the time ASA was getting closer to some sort of job action.
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you would think it would be obvious when all ur northwest passengers wanna know why they are boarding a plane with usairways painted on the side.

its not like comair taking from asa here.
 
bumblebee said:
Isn't there a way to know whether or not the route you're scheduled to fly is "struck work"? I know I heard about something like this during the time ASA was getting closer to some sort of job action.
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For a union carrier, it's my understanding that ALPA or your appropriate union would publish a strike book.

Otherwise, I have no idea.
 
Firebird2XC said:
Actually, I think Pinnacle Holdings would decide which contract is the most lucrative, and assign aircraft to fly those routes.

Granted, Colgan aircraft can't readily and immediately do that, because of paint, but don't be surprised if the aircraft acquisition plan for Colgan becomes the strike-buster plan.

All those Q300s or 200s rumored to be on order? What if Pinnacle Holdings got them in NWA colors? What then?

Trust me.. right now Colgan Air is an uncomfortable place to be. So is Pinnacle, as it were. In fact, a class or two in front of me at Eagle had a few Pinnacle pilots.

People are getting wise. Colgan Air might well be the new generation of scabs.

If that happens, good luck getting a jump seat on a flight I'm working. If I have anything to say about it, the captain will know what's up.

Scabs = Better off in another industry
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You're posts are getting more and more absurd. You haven't been in this industry long enough to say horrible things like that.

If this did happen, there would be Colgan pilots who would cross the line. However, there would be a lot of us who would be standing next to PCL pilots. Myself included.

Stop making these posts because you're unsure about the future of your company. It's very immature.
 
Firebird2XC said:

People are getting wise. Colgan Air might well be the new generation of scabs.

If that happens, good luck getting a jump seat on a flight I'm working. If I have anything to say about it, the captain will know what's up.

Scabs = Better off in another industry
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Sorry Chuck, but I gotta go with SmitteyB on this one. You're a bit over the top here.

Come on, we're all a bunch of FO's that don't know JACK about the industry yet.
We're not Scabs at Colgan, far from that. PCL is not going to take Saabs and put them on NWA routes. They CANT. We don't have the aircraft nor the manpower. Now is a good time for the Pinnacle pilots to strike - before Q400's start coming on property over here.

Chuck, I know you're bitter towards Colgan and all, and believe me I've got my feelings too. But you're crossing the line between pilot/management with your post.
The pilots here are awesome, don't go throwing the word Scab in the same sentence as Colgan PILOTS. The pilots at Colgan are FAR from being Scabs dude, do you even know what a Scab is???? You know you're going to catch a lot of flak for making that comment, just wait until Seggy sees that. :insane:

And FYI - for the next 5-8 years, that jumpseat in your cockpit belongs to the Captain, not you. ;)
 
Airdale said:
And FYI - for the next 5-8 years, that jumpseat in your cockpit belongs to the Captain, not you. ;)
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i've been looking through my ops manual and i have to fill out an irregularity report if i toss someone out of the jumpseat. i don't suppose i can just put down "hoe-jets puke" can i? any PMs from captains telling me if they run into simular problems but found a way around it would be appreciated.
 
SmitteyB said:
Okay, point taken. I understand and I'm still learning. I was responding that we don't specifically undercut union-contracts.

EDIT: Let me be more clear. I guess my post was vague in nature. I specifically mean that Colgan pilots don't stand around and say, I cant wait to take over Piedmont flying, that would be awesome! We can do it cheaper!

Waiting for my copy of FTL.
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For what its' worth, man, I think you misinterpreted me as making a comment against the Colgan pilot group, when I was referring to Colgan in terms as a company, ie, management.

Colgan pilots are great people. Just gotta get 'em a union and they'll be fine.
 
SmitteyB said:
You're posts are getting more and more absurd. You haven't been in this industry long enough to say horrible things like that.

If this did happen, there would be Colgan pilots who would cross the line. However, there would be a lot of us who would be standing next to PCL pilots. Myself included.

Stop making these posts because you're unsure about the future of your company. It's very immature.
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"Hey pot, this is kettle, you're black!"

Stop putting words in my mouth and assuming you know my motivations. My company will either soldier on and I'll be fine, or it'll tank and I'll go somewhere. By that time, probably as a street captain, if I have to. Life will go on. If the industry folds, I'll go turn wrench.

The "your company is in trouble so you're dissing mine" line is really tired. I'm just calling it what it is. Seriously now- read FTL. The Pinnacle Holdings/Colgan situation is looking REALLY bad for all involved. It's not a personal attack against you or your choice of employment- just my approximation of the TAF in that region, you follow?

Simmer down, man. I'd still buy you a beer on a layover.
 
Two-minute warning on the thread because I'm growing tired of reading the circular logic.

Get it in now folks as it might get retired after a little bit.
 
Airdale said:
Sorry Chuck, but I gotta go with SmitteyB on this one. You're a bit over the top here.

Come on, we're all a bunch of FO's that don't know JACK about the industry yet.
We're not Scabs at Colgan, far from that. PCL is not going to take Saabs and put them on NWA routes. They CANT. We don't have the aircraft nor the manpower. Now is a good time for the Pinnacle pilots to strike - before Q400's start coming on property over here.

Chuck, I know you're bitter towards Colgan and all, and believe me I've got my feelings too. But you're crossing the line between pilot/management with your post.
The pilots here are awesome, don't go throwing the word Scab in the same sentence as Colgan PILOTS. The pilots at Colgan are FAR from being Scabs dude, do you even know what a Scab is???? You know you're going to catch a lot of flak for making that comment, just wait until Seggy sees that. :insane:

And FYI - for the next 5-8 years, that jumpseat in your cockpit belongs to the Captain, not you. ;)
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>slaps forehead< Oh MAN will you people stop putting words in my mouth? WHat'd I say?

"IF that happens, CJC MIGHT WELL BE THE NEXT GEN OF SCABS"

ie, we haven't had any strikes with linecrossers in a while. If Pinnacle/Colgan strikes or whatever, I'd be my hat that SOMEBODY would cross that line.

Then we'd have scab books, and name checks for jumpseat rides. You don't want to be caught up in that.

As far as the jumpseat/upgrade comment- try more like three years... and yeah, it's the captain's jumpseat, but you can bet the FO can influence that if he says the right things.

Sheesh. You kids and reading into things.
 
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