New Alaska TA

[BEEF SUPREME]

Sorry, I should have specified that I was asking about the current contract there.

Oh ok gotcha.

My experience on reserve at AS was pre pandemic. I became a line holder summer of 2019. I think I had 2 months, May and October on reserve in 2020.

You can really be placed on red eye trips if you are 0945 RAP. Unless you get placed into rest for 10 hrs and converted to a WOCL trip. I think this is pretty dangerous personally but many call me bad names for saying so.

I personally don’t nap well. I personally wake up at first light frothing for coffee and working out. At 8pm I’m Mr Sleepy. Some would call this healthy. Pilots call me a puss. Go figure.

To each their own and all. But for me, relative peace with reserve was the 0200 zone. I’d set my phone to nuclear death blast and only CS could wake me via DND on the iPhone. More often than not I’d be sleeping through my RAP and riding at the local bike park with a uniform in the car during the day. A lot of times they’d call me and inform me I had been assigned a trip for the next day. It was pretty hunky dory.

My worst month I was kicked down to red eye reserve by seniority which I believe was a 1730 RAP. I was a mess all month. I didn’t do well. Probation made it worse because I was afraid to call in fatigued. It wasn’t fun. 10/10 would not do that again. But for many this could be the best schedule. Errrryyyybody is different. Maybe you nap well. Maybe the kids leave you alone. Maybe you have a rad place that is quiet and dark and you can sleep.

These days I have no idea what it will be like for a reserve. I’m mentoring people and they don’t particularly enjoy it. And they are looking forward to the new contract. I think in February we will have another staffing crisis and mass cancellation thing again. And being a reserve will not be a party. But I’m not all knowing and maybe there is a plan for having 514 lines in SEA.

One thing I know for sure: travel with Auntie Alaska is predictable. She’s cheap. So you don’t get nice stuff.


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[Skåning]

Oh ok gotcha.

My experience on reserve at AS was pre pandemic. I became a line holder summer of 2019. I think I had 2 months, May and October on reserve in 2020.

You can really be placed on red eye trips if you are 0945 RAP. Unless you get placed into rest for 10 hrs and converted to a WOCL trip. I think this is pretty dangerous personally but many call me bad names for saying so.

I personally don’t nap well. I personally wake up at first light frothing for coffee and working out. At 8pm I’m Mr Sleepy. Some would call this healthy. Pilots call me a puss. Go figure.

To each their own and all. But for me, relative peace with reserve was the 0200 zone. I’d set my phone to nuclear death blast and only CS could wake me via DND on the iPhone. More often than not I’d be sleeping through my RAP and riding at the local bike park with a uniform in the car during the day. A lot of times they’d call me and inform me I had been assigned a trip for the next day. It was pretty hunky dory.

My worst month I was kicked down to red eye reserve by seniority which I believe was a 1730 RAP. I was a mess all month. I didn’t do well. Probation made it worse because I was afraid to call in fatigued. It wasn’t fun. 10/10 would not do that again. But for many this could be the best schedule. Errrryyyybody is different. Maybe you nap well. Maybe the kids leave you alone. Maybe you have a rad place that is quiet and dark and you can sleep.

These days I have no idea what it will be like for a reserve. I’m mentoring people and they don’t particularly enjoy it. And they are looking forward to the new contract. I think in February we will have another staffing crisis and mass cancellation thing again. And being a reserve will not be a party. But I’m not all knowing and maybe there is a plan for having 514 lines in SEA.

One thing I know for sure: travel with Auntie Alaska is predictable. She’s cheap. So you don’t get nice stuff.


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Did you listen to the podcast #6 about Reserve? There’s a lot of good changes with the total rewrite, I think it’s gonna go senior and a lot of ways to make extra dough.

 

[ShortField]

Did you listen to the podcast #6 about Reserve? There’s a lot of good changes with the total rewrite, I think it’s gonna go senior and a lot of ways to make extra dough.

With all my heart, this. I think it will go senior and those that get short call won’t get used much. The motivation is there for long call reserves to pick up trips ahead of time. The only gripe I have as a junior captain is that I have to wait for it to be implemented.

At face value I wasn’t super stoked overall. Then I read the executive summary, I was more pleased. Then I listened to the podcasts, and I felt even better still. Obviously there’s still the particulars in the actual language to comb through since they’re not posted yet, but I like what I’ve seen and heard so far.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Did you listen to the podcast #6 about Reserve? There’s a lot of good changes with the total rewrite, I think it’s gonna go senior and a lot of ways to make extra dough.

Like I said in an earlier post I haven’t had time to digest the full TA.

I did try to help answer AMG’s question which is about reserve life on our current contract.


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[One&Done]

Please at least go listen to the MEC podcasts about the TA. It addresses the TA is much more detail, and a lot of the issues you are worried about are gone.

 

[Skåning]

Like I said in an earlier post I haven’t had time to digest the full TA.

I did try to help answer AMG’s question which is about reserve life on our current contract.


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Gotcha, when you have the time to digest it i'm curious on your take. The pilot forum is insane right now - avoid.

 

[One&Done]

I am currently on reserve this month on a 10am RAP, and usually choose a similar time other months as well. I have never had to do a red-eye with that RAP and don’t see how you really could. Yeah I suppose they could put you into rest and change your RAP, but I have never seen or heard of that being done in my time.

Shoot, reserve for me has been great this month. I live in base, and have only actually flown 4 days this month and it’s currently the 26th…not to shabby.

i’m really looking forward to the new T/A’s reserve rules, if it passes I think it’ll go really senior too…

 

[///AMG]

Like I said in an earlier post I haven’t had time to digest the full TA.

I did try to help answer AMG’s question which is about reserve life on our current contract.


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Yeah, sorry guys, I got us off topic a little bit. Thanks for the writeup Beef. Sounds like I guessed right for my particular lifestyle/desires.

At risk of further derailing this, say a guy were needing another 50 hrs to consolidation, ideally ASAP......does selecting "want to fly" help in that endeavor? One might presume it does, but I have heard other things (i.e. like higher seniority folks on LCR getting called first)

 

[One&Done]

Yes it can help. Of there are trips in open time that match your RAP, and you preference to fly they will give it to you the day prior when they are assigning trips. Once the actual day comes, and you are just covering sick call, then they usually just assign the person with the lowest credit.
But to answer your question, yes it helps.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Yeah, sorry guys, I got us off topic a little bit. Thanks for the writeup Beef. Sounds like I guessed right for my particular lifestyle/desires.

At risk of further derailing this, say a guy were needing another 50 hrs to consolidation, ideally ASAP......does selecting "want to fly" help in that endeavor? One might presume it does, but I have heard other things (i.e. like higher seniority folks on LCR getting called first)

It seems things aren’t so busy for FO reserves right now. I’d make a call to crew scheduling and see if you can be assigned stuff that you like from open time.


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[BEEF SUPREME]

Gotcha, when you have the time to digest it i'm curious on your take. The pilot forum is insane right now - avoid.

Yeah 500 or something posts on the TA thread. Yikes.

These were my big 3 issues. Well 4 as things dragged on:

1 Scope
2 Vacation months being a nightmare
3 WOCL
4 As things dragged on for 3 years I wanted retro as a penalty for management dragging

Those are the things I called and emailed my rep about.

Initially I had some issues with vacation and retro. After listening to the podcast on vacation I think it’s fine. (*Although I do have a basic issue with someone telling me I get 15 days of vacation when those days are only worth 60% of a work day. It won’t change how I vote. It’s more like a pet peeve or something for me. If you start telling me if I were a lawyer or a 9-5 worker it would be equivalent I’ll just want to die even more. I’m not a lawyer or a office worker I’m a pilot and we work in chunks of days.)

The retro thing isn’t a big deal to me as it seems they start the clock from October 1, 2021. I don’t think that’s right but here we are.

Reserve goes senior now? I don’t see it but I haven’t had a lot of time to process all this. So let’s say reserve goes more senior. Does that mean 30% of our flying that happens to be red eyes goes jr to people who don’t want it? To me that means sick calls and boom reserve isn’t looking so good.

I’m still very worried about WOCL and how there is no override. I’ll be a new captain soon enough and if as the jr person I get forced into red eye trips. It won’t be very safe. Or at least it could be safer. I feel personally that there should be an override. I’d be willing to take a pay hit to ensure that pilots who can take a nap and who enjoy WOCL flying (I know you’re out there red eye pilots) take that flying. Instead of calling me a puss for not wanting to fly sleepy and not being tough enough. Or better yet telling me I picked the wrong career. Sheesh sorry I’m still healthy and work out in the am.

Just take the red eye flying and make more money, tough guy.

This contract does give me a lot more flexibility for holidays and to go to races with the kids I coach. So that’s nice. Scope means I have a chance for a 1/2 decent career. There are a lot of things I like. Probably the things I don’t like won’t change.

Mostly just worried about where the red eye flying winds up and who it’s forced on. There seems to be a lot of tradition in misery at AS. “We used to sleep in trailers in FAI” etc. I don’t think my concerns about WOCL flying will be heard and nothing will be done about it. Even if we all voted no.

If anything the new contract gives me pause about an upgrade so I don’t wind up fatigued. Yeah yeah I’m a big puss for not being able to sleep during the day. I should be absolutely ashamed of myself…


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[BobDDuck]

Yeah 500 or something posts on the TA thread. Yikes.

These were my big 3 issues. Well 4 as things dragged on:

1 Scope
2 Vacation months being a nightmare
3 WOCL
4 As things dragged on for 3 years I wanted retro as a penalty for management dragging

Those are the things I called and emailed my rep about.

Initially I had some issues with vacation and retro. After listening to the podcast on vacation I think it’s fine. (*Although I do have a basic issue with someone telling me I get 15 days of vacation when those days are only worth 60% of a work day. It won’t change how I vote. It’s more like a pet peeve or something for me. If you start telling me if I were a lawyer or a 9-5 worker it would be equivalent I’ll just want to die even more. I’m not a lawyer or a office worker I’m a pilot and we work in chunks of days.)

The retro thing isn’t a big deal to me as it seems they start the clock from October 1, 2021. I don’t think that’s right but here we are.

Reserve goes senior now? I don’t see it but I haven’t had a lot of time to process all this. So let’s say reserve goes more senior. Does that mean 30% of our flying that happens to be red eyes goes jr to people who don’t want it? To me that means sick calls and boom reserve isn’t looking so good.

I’m still very worried about WOCL and how there is no override. I’ll be a new captain soon enough and if as the jr person I get forced into red eye trips. It won’t be very safe. Or at least it could be safer. I feel personally that there should be an override. I’d be willing to take a pay hit to ensure that pilots who can take a nap and who enjoy WOCL flying (I know you’re out there red eye pilots) take that flying. Instead of calling me a puss for not wanting to fly sleepy and not being tough enough. Or better yet telling me I picked the wrong career. Sheesh sorry I’m still healthy and work out in the am.

Just take the red eye flying and make more money, tough guy.

This contract does give me a lot more flexibility for holidays and to go to races with the kids I coach. So that’s nice. Scope means I have a chance for a 1/2 decent career. There are a lot of things I like. Probably the things I don’t like won’t change.

Mostly just worried about where the red eye flying winds up and who it’s forced on. There seems to be a lot of tradition in misery at AS. “We used to sleep in trailers in FAI” etc. I don’t think my concerns about WOCL flying will be heard and nothing will be done about it. Even if we all voted no.

If anything the new contract gives me pause about an upgrade so I don’t wind up fatigued. Yeah yeah I’m a big puss for not being able to sleep during the day. I should be absolutely ashamed of myself…


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That's a good overall report of your view of the TA. Thanks. Two things (from a very interested) outside party looking in...

Vacation: did you have an expectation that you'd get enough vacation day credit to have a regular number of days off or a regular paycheck? Did you feel ahead of time that you knew where the industry was with that (Delta at 2 weeks worth 3:45 and the rest at 3:30 and everyone else except JetBlue's PTO at 3:30 or less)? Do you feel that with your TA's vacation ghost credit scheme you'll be able to get an acceptable number of days off (at the cost of a normal line value)?

WOCL pay: if the issue is fatiguing schedules, how does extra money for flying them mitigate the fatigue?

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

That's a good overall report of your view of the TA. Thanks. Two things (from a very interested) outside party looking in...

Vacation: did you have an expectation that you'd get enough vacation day credit to have a regular number of days off or a regular paycheck? Did you feel ahead of time that you knew where the industry was with that (Delta at 2 weeks worth 3:45 and the rest at 3:30 and everyone else except JetBlue's PTO at 3:30 or less)? Do you feel that with your TA's vacation ghost credit scheme you'll be able to get an acceptable number of days off (at the cost of a normal line value)?

WOCL pay: if the issue is fatiguing schedules, how does extra money for flying them mitigate the fatigue?

Vacation issue is two parts: under the current contract I had a very real issue with what one captain I flew with summarized perfectly: “I work harder on my vacation months than any other months”

I could go into details but for now I won’t. It does appear that this issue has been solved. I like the vacation part of the contract. If it’s not mutilated by management in practice I will enjoy my newfound QOL. It’s a win IMO.

My issue with a days work being the equivalent to a day of paid vacation is just in the vernacular. A day is a day. It’s just a peeve. I have PTSD from flying 135 on rolling rest and my bosses telling me I had a day off when I was on call but didn’t get called. So I get hung up in details. I’m just traumatized that’s all. I won’t vote on a peeve.

WOCL: I’ve discovered during my time of being a heavy equipment operator known as a pilot that there are two kinds of pilots: those that can sleep during the day and those who can’t. I’m absolutely butchering the science but I basically fly a tractor that follows a magenta line.

Anyway my tiny brain thinks that the guys who can deal with red eyes. The ones that bid it because of all the reasons I’ve heard: more time at home, take the kids to school, etc Those pilots will bid for red eyes if it pays more. Guys like me who feel like we are going to die if we stay up all night because I can’t sleep during the day before or after the red eye. We don’t bid for the extra money of flying red eyes. In other words I hope the WOCL pays handsomely because people other than me will fly it. I’d go as far as paying that override myself so I can sleep at night.


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[roundout]

Vacation: did you have an expectation that you'd get enough vacation day credit to have a regular number of days off or a regular paycheck? Did you feel ahead of time that you knew where the industry was with that (Delta at 2 weeks worth 3:45 and the rest at 3:30 and everyone else except JetBlue's PTO at 3:30 or less)?

5hr/day at brand F

WOCL pay: if the issue is fatiguing schedules, how does extra money for flying them mitigate the fatigue?

Drop more and block fewer hours during the month? Or the “power users” will bid them, leaving more day flying for the rest of us.

 

[One&Done]

There is more pay for red-eye trips now though in the form of 5:15 ADG rigged trips. These are the previous 12ish credit two leg all nighters which now will credit 15:45. That is almost 4 hours soft time for 2 legs work.

I know there are several people out there that will be grabbing these, Which is great since it’s one less all-nighter for us.

 

[Skåning]

I personally like red eyes, so if they pay 15:45 for a three day that starts at 9pm, i'd be all over that.

Section 25 of the contract (scheduling) has been completely re-written, it will take a while to grasp but I think it will really change peoples' behavior.

 

[BobDDuck]

Those pilots will bid for red eyes if it pays more.

That makes sense. I think your 5:15 ADG will help with that too.

 

[BobDDuck]

5hr/day at brand F

Sun Country too. But I don't think Alaska was using any of the ULCCs as an industry comparator.

 

[One&Done]

I don’t like them, but 15:45 pay for a 2-day sweetens the deal. I think even I’d probably pick some up hear & there..

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I don’t like them, but 15:45 pay for a 2-day sweetens the deal. I think i’d even I’d probably pick some up hear & there..

And I thank you


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