New 121 Pilots you think you have it bad now?

Cptnchia said:
Most of "they" have retired and moved on. The guys now left holding the bag didn't have a say in it, but do want to deal with it by taking back the flying. However, I'm sure if that happened we'd hear cries of "They're stealing our flying."
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Not from me. Please, for the love of god, take the -900 and let mainline Delta pilots fly it. I'd rather be making mainline pay/QoL to fly that thing than regional pay/QoL. The jobs themselves don't disappear, they just move up the ladder. In fact, it probably generates MORE jobs since most majors have a higher crew:aircraft ratio than regionals do.
 
ryanmickG said:
At least Marcus (777 forever) didnt take a "low paying" regional job and bitch and complain about it.

Congrats Marcus for enjoying what you are doing.
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Never said I wasn't enjoying what I do. Just no content to rest on my laurels and let this stay a low paying job. Which is what would happen if we just "settled" for Skywest or ASA pay on the next contract. Then when ASA's contract comes up they can....well, match themselves.

I also feel the pay 93 vs pay 08 is a serious oversimplification that ignores numerous economical issues. Inflation being the main one. It's sorta like "Dark Knight" is gonna break "Titanic's" record on box office sales......yet Titanic still sold more tickets b/c they cost less in 97.
 
kellwolf said:
The jobs themselves don't disappear, they just move up the ladder. In fact, it probably generates MORE jobs since most majors have a higher crew:aircraft ratio than regionals do.
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I don't think you understood what Cptnchia was saying. Mainline jobs are most certainly disappearing. You need to look no further than the nearest airline hub. In short, the goal of most regional pilots is to fly for the majors. Well, the majors are disappearing. For every RJ that is added, a mainline jet disappears. For every mainline jet that disappears, so does the odds of a regional pilot getting a seat at that carrier. So when all the newbies get excited that Regional XYZ is adding 200 more Super RJ3000s, remember to say goodbye to flying for your favorite major. The odds of getting hired will be like winning the lottery.

My personal opinion is that the "old guys" at the airlines weren't being arrogant when they snubbed the RJs coming to mainline. I don't think they wanted them in the system AT ALL. I'm sure they thought they'd never get pilots willing to fly the things for <1/4th the going salary. Unfortunately, they were wrong. People were more than happy to sell their soul to fly a shiny new RJ. The Genie is out of the bottle now. The major airlines are 1/2 the size of their glory years. Heck, NetJets is now operating more aircraft than American Airlines (post TWA merger). But with 1/3 the pilots.
 
Regional XYZ is putting on the RJ3000? With 200 coming online I'll be a captain in no time on it! OMG where do I sign up.
 
Citationkid said:
I don't think that's warrented. Maybe if he left xjet for another $25,000 a year job with the same crappy QOL, but he's making ten times that and I am sure his QOL is higher. I'd leave my job for his. He also has more 121 expereince than half of the other posters in this thread.

Alex.
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Then go for it man! You are young enough to start over and work towards getting into the business side of a medical firm.

At least Meritflyer has seen the aviation world and the business world, and was able to make a choice on where he'd be happiest.

I've also been fortunate enough to be in both worlds, and I know where I'm happiest. Nothing more annoying than listening to people yammer on how unhappy they are and how they should have done this or that. If you want to do something else, just make it happen. Even if you fail, at least you tried.
 
Disagree

NJA_Capt said:
I don't think you understood what Cptnchia was saying. Mainline jobs are most certainly disappearing. You need to look no further than the nearest airline hub. In short, the goal of most regional pilots is to fly for the majors. Well, the majors are disappearing. For every RJ that is added, a mainline jet disappears. For every mainline jet that disappears, so does the odds of a regional pilot getting a seat at that carrier. So when all the newbies get excited that Regional XYZ is adding 200 more Super RJ3000s, remember to say goodbye to flying for your favorite major. The odds of getting hired will be like winning the lottery.
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None of this applies at all to the regional/mainline scheme I am in right now. I mean it is not even remotely close.

The RJ scope is limited and mainline is growing.
 
mastermags said:
Why is it that I don't come around here much anymore? Oh yeah, now I remember.
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Please, I hate it when people say this. If you can't take a little diversity, a little heated discussion, then you need to lock yourself in a dark closet.

Who really cares if two people are throwing poo at each other in a stupid thread. Nobody glued your eyelids open, held a gun to your head and forced you to read this. :rolleyes:
 
Cptnchia said:
Most of "they" have retired and moved on. The guys now left holding the bag didn't have a say in it, but do want to deal with it by taking back the flying. However, I'm sure if that happened we'd hear cries of "They're stealing our flying."

As far as pulling up the ladder, no, that's not it. When each regional group agrees to concessions in order to get more flying via an RFP, it just makes it harder to regain the flying, therefore leading to a need for less mainline pilots. More like the regional guys are shooting themselves in the foot and then setting the ladder on fire. If your goal is a job at the mainline, why try and take it through scope? You're only hurting yourselves.
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Well good. . .I hope there is a significant change in philosophy that will secure the profession for all of us.

I'm sure I don't speak for every regional 121 pilot, but I'm happy where the scope is set now. . .any larger and it's an even bigger issue in terms of career progression.
 
Airdale said:
Please, I hate it when people say this. If you can't take a little diversity, a little heated discussion, then you need to lock yourself in a dark closet.

Who really cares if two people are throwing poo at each other in a stupid thread. Nobody glued your eyelids open, held a gun to your head and forced you to read this. :rolleyes:
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No offense, but did you not write an entire disseration on why you were leaving JetCareers for good? Never to return? Yet here you are, complaining about others who are expressing their distaste with the bickering going on.

I empathize with mastermags, because if I have the option of reading "professionals" throw high school insults at one other on the internet, or going to do something else, which do you think I'll choose? That is why I personally do not participate in the board as much as I used to. I come back because I still love my career, even with all the stress, and I'd like to encourage others to follow their dreams as well. Plus, I love keeping in touch with my friends on the board.

It seems like you can't open a thread in the "Airline Pilots" forum anymore without mudslinging. Which is funny, because it's the section where the "adults" and "professionals" hang out...
 
Re: Disagree

Nick said:
None of this applies at all to the regional/mainline scheme I am in right now. I mean it is not even remotely close.

The RJ scope is limited and mainline is growing.
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And when did you start in the regional/mainline scheme you are in right now? Because up until maybe 2-3 years ago, that is how it was everywhere, especially after 9-11. So yes, the pendulum is finally swinging back the other way. Let's just be careful to not let it change direction again.
 
NJA_Capt said:
I don't think you understood what Cptnchia was saying. Mainline jobs are most certainly disappearing. You need to look no further than the nearest airline hub. In short, the goal of most regional pilots is to fly for the majors. Well, the majors are disappearing. For every RJ that is added, a mainline jet disappears. For every mainline jet that disappears, so does the odds of a regional pilot getting a seat at that carrier. So when all the newbies get excited that Regional XYZ is adding 200 more Super RJ3000s, remember to say goodbye to flying for your favorite major. The odds of getting hired will be like winning the lottery.
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What I meant was if the majors took back the -900 it WOULD generate more jobs based on the fact that their contracts normally have a higher pilot:aircraft ratio. Our staffing model on a good day on the NWA side of ops is 3:1, and that's cutting it close. They had to go from 5:1 to 7:1 on the Delta side just to keep flights running on time, and it killed management to do it. So, if the world ended tomorrow and the RJs wound up where they belonged, you'd have an overall INCREASE in jobs. Major airlines wouldn't staff RJs at a 3:1 ratio. 5:1 would be more realistic on the -200. So for every aircraft the majors took back, there would be 2 more pilot jobs created, not only overall but at the major level. Since that'll only happen in my wildest dreams, it's only academic. I just use it as an example for how the people that say "OMG!!! I'm gonna be flying an RJ in 3 months with 300 hours and I only have to take a jet course to do it!!!" guys are only hurting themselves.
 
Cptnchia said:
Most of "they" have retired and moved on. The guys now left holding the bag didn't have a say in it, but do want to deal with it by taking back the flying. However, I'm sure if that happened we'd hear cries of "They're stealing our flying."

As far as pulling up the ladder, no, that's not it. When each regional group agrees to concessions in order to get more flying via an RFP, it just makes it harder to regain the flying, therefore leading to a need for less mainline pilots. More like the regional guys are shooting themselves in the foot and then setting the ladder on fire. If your goal is a job at the mainline, why try and take it through scope? You're only hurting yourselves.
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That's great to hear! Let's hope more of the top dogs are supporting this, as well. Scope needs to be reigned in, no question about it. This 'regional' pilot would love to see ALL jet aircraft at the majors.
 
My god, what are you kindergardeners even arguing about?

Goodness, gracious, take an enema folks! GEEEEEZ.
 
yea... if the arguing was still going on, we'd have closed it by now...it seems as though the conversation is back to being conversation, so all's good again :)

keep in mind, doug's been off the board for a bit, so he missed all the earlier fun and so he's a smidge behind the times. ;)
 
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