New 121 Pilots you think you have it bad now?

[thehobbit]

A 10-year Captain has produced more revenue for his company and has demonstrated a dedication to that airline by sticking around. It's reward for length-of-service. There's nothing wrong with rewarding loyal employees. In fact, it should be encouraged. Paying a brand new guy the same thing you pay a 20-year veteran is ridiculous, even if they do have the exact same responsibilities.

the pilot may be brand new to the company but in no way are they brand new to aviation if they are captians. you guys are complaining about lack of pay for the responsibilities that you have to undertake then say that longevity with the company is more important to pay scale than experience and hours.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

the pilot may be brand new to the company but in no way are they brand new to aviation if they are captians. you guys are complaining about lack of pay for the responsibilities that you have to undertake then say that longevity with the company is more important to pay scale than experience and hours.

"Experience" is a relative term. In my opinion, a 3,000 hour regional copilot that has 2,500 hours of jet 121 time is more experienced than a 6,000 hour CFI that has nothing but CFI experience. Hours don't mean much.

I would welcome a national seniority list that allowed pilots to receive credit for their time in the airline industry at other airlines, but a national list simply isn't going to happen. Without that, company seniority is the best we can do.

 

[surreal1221]

no... only after someone had to step in and say something.. plus dish out a few cards.

try again

nice, I figured it all worked out flawlessly since I kept my hands clean. I'm surprised.

 

[meritflyer]

Hours don't mean much.

We get it that you don't think time is a measure of ability or skill but isn't that how aviation experience is measured?

Don't minimums usually specify turbine hours, multi hours, instrument hours, total hours, etc?

 

[NJA_Capt]

the pilot may be brand new to the company but in no way are they brand new to aviation if they are captains.

Not necessarily. Given the current state of the regionals, a pilot may be hired with +/- 500tt, then upgrade a 1500. An airline pilot with 1500tt is still a L-o-n-g way from an experienced Captain. Case in point was PCL3701. The Captain had almost 6000tt, with the majority being PIC in a B1900. But he was a very green jet PIC and lack of high altitude aerodynamics knowledge (and quite a few other things) bit him. Further, a 3000 hour 121 FO who was hired at 300 hours may be able to control a mean autopilot and type 80 wpm on an FMS, but he has very little stick and rudder skills. He's more than likely not the kind of guy you'd want to cut loose as PIC with your new G200 going to Aspen.

 

[thehobbit]

you guys are comparing apples to oranges. I'm comparing apples to apples. you can't compare someone who has 3000 hours as a cfi with someone who has 3000 hours as a jet pilot. I'm talking about two atp rated captains who are also type rated in the same airframe doing the same tasks and there being a large pay difference between the two when they have the same responsibilities.

 

[surreal1221]

I think PCL has already indicated why that is.

Longevity with a company should be rewarded.

What - so a 1 year CA can expect to make that same pay scale as they grow older, raise a family, and the increasing responsibility of living increase? Kidding right?

 

[thehobbit]

put in cola increases and more stock options for longer serving employees and yeah.

 

[surreal1221]

Along with rewarding them for staying with the company and not dipping out to someplace when they hit the magical 1000TPIC number.

If a Company would provide the "real" COLA increases yeah - that'd be great. But we are living with an inflation number in the low teens, and this isn't just recently, this is over the past two decades. A 3% COLA increase will never come close to what the real cost of living is. A shame, which then leaves us with this system of step increases. The military does it, and well - Aviation is deep in military tradition/responsibility/realism.

I have to say, that if I was going to get paid the same amount of money as a 1st year FO through the rest of my life; I'd be finding another company to work for and perhaps even another industry.

 

[msmspilot]

But we are living with an inflation number in the low teens, and this isn't just recently, this is over the past two decades.

Did you mean inflation since '88 is in the low teens, or inflation this year is in the low teens and this has been since the late '80's?

Second, source? Not trying to be a smart ass; I'm truly curious. I haven't seen anyone put inflation anywhere close to the teens.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

put in cola increases and more stock options for longer serving employees and yeah.

Stock options? I want nothing to do with stock options. I want cold, hard cash. The airlines can take their stock and shove it.

 

[greaper007]

Are you high? My dad was a first year airline pilot at Delta in 1978 just before deregulation. He made $400 a month as salary, not flight time. Adjusted for inflation that equals $16000 first year. I remember we were on food stamps for the first few years.

And, senior captains (close to retirement) made between $300,000 and $500,000 adjusted for inflation during that time period. Nothing to sneeze at and I hope we can reattain something along those lines. But, it is a far cry from over a million.

Sorry Capt. I forgot to include my source for this http://www.landings.com/_landings/stories/captainicarus.html. I was wrong about the Capt. pay, it was late and I was quoting from memory from another article I read, not a good combo. Apparently 1978 senior capt pay was $590,394.17 adjusted for inflation. I stand corrected.

 

[kellwolf]

Stock options? I want nothing to do with stock options. I want cold, hard cash. The airlines can take their stock and shove it.

Bingo. I've still got my stock from when I was a ramper at SWA. They gave all the rampers stock rather than a signing bonus for the new contract. I've lost money that way.

 

[granlistillo]

I've taught a couple of those guys. There's a reason I won't be flying some of those airlines....

I had an offer from a bidness acquaintance (Dir Ops)to fly A320s for a holiday tour operator. All I had to do was jump through the JAA hoops for a frozen ATPL (15k$) and then buy a 320 rating for a mere 30K Euros (45K$).

Another acquintance took the same offer, and is setting in a hiring pool with the type and 30K euros less richer. Glad I took the US regional route.

 

[cfii2007]

i Tazed Myself Earlier.....it Was Fun

"don't Taze Me Bro!!!!!!!!!!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

But we are living with an inflation number in the low teens, and this isn't just recently, this is over the past two decades.

Uhh... what?

 

[WalterSobchak]

you guys are comparing apples to oranges. I'm comparing apples to apples. you can't compare someone who has 3000 hours as a cfi with someone who has 3000 hours as a jet pilot. I'm talking about two atp rated captains who are also type rated in the same airframe doing the same tasks and there being a large pay difference between the two when they have the same responsibilities.

They really don't have the same resposibilites. Look at a 75 or even an airbus. The Captain their has to over see a more complex airplane, with more crew members/pax etc, and do it over a longer distance dealing with more weather. Some of the destinations might be the same, but the job is more extensive. Experience is what you get paid for. When is the last time you saw a mainline pilot get caught screwing in the bushes by the police? That's maturity and understanding the company is paying for two perfectly good hotel rooms.

 

[Long Time Gone]

Nevermind...

Mr. 777 must know alot though with 700TT.