Need help with training contract

[flyinghedgehog]

Folks,

I got a job offer recently and I am looking over the contract. Got the offer last week and had been asking friends for their opinions. For some reason the light bulb just went off today and I realize I should actually ask an attorney.

What I am concerned about are the following clauses. I wonder if those sound reasonable to you and if you would accept them.

so here goes
1. Company agrees to advance the pilot training expense

2. If I fail the training I will have to refund the company the total cost of training

3. If employment is terminated for any reason, with or without cause, prior to 12 consecutive months of active service after the completion of training, I agree to refund the company on the pro rata basis.

Opinions are appreciated. I am also seeking contract review from an aviation attorney. If anyone think they may be able to recommend an attorney or ARE attorney themselves willing to help please PM or tell me to PM you. I am unable to disclose any details (including the state) in this post.

I am wondering most if #3 is a deal breaker. I personally feel that I would rather have that amended to "If employment is terminated due to misconduct". The language of the contract as is seems too open ended.

Thanks!

 

[TrustMeI'maPilot]

Sounds pretty horrible to me. What does #1 mean? You pay and they give you the money? If not, what's the point in even listing it, the price of training is a cost of doing business and you should have nothing to do with it.

Think about why a company would require this kind of contract.

 

[flyinghedgehog]

Basically they pay out the cost of training and I won't have to pay anything unless #2 or # 3 happens. They said the reason for this is because there have been times where people got their type rating then bolted shortly after. I know some folks who have been with them for quite a few years as well (I have seen 4 years to like 14). They are not my best friends, just happened to know them through other pilots.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

In today's environment I don't see how anyone should have to sign a contract like this.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Plenty of corporate and 135 operators are using training contracts. XOJET has a 1 year contract. Less reputable 135 operators are up to a 3 year contract. I have no idea how that even works. I was asked to sign one for recurrent on year 3. LOL so I bailed for the regional. No training contract.

The pilot shortage is basically causing the 135/91 world to double down on stupid.

 

[hook_dupin]

Adobe Pro is a wonderful thing....

 

[flyinghedgehog]

adobe pro?

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Generally, the companies that have fought these things in the past end up going well beyond having you sign a training contract, and have you sign both a training contract and promissory note. Don't ask me how I know...

 

[gotWXdagain]

Resumes aren't the only thing that the round file was made for.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Folks,

I got a job offer recently and I am looking over the contract. Got the offer last week and had been asking friends for their opinions. For some reason the light bulb just went off today and I realize I should actually ask an attorney.

What I am concerned about are the following clauses. I wonder if those sound reasonable to you and if you would accept them.

so here goes
1. Company agrees to advance the pilot training expense

2. If I fail the training I will have to refund the company the total cost of training

3. If employment is terminated for any reason, with or without cause, prior to 12 consecutive months of active service after the completion of training, I agree to refund the company on the pro rata basis.

Opinions are appreciated. I am also seeking contract review from an aviation attorney. If anyone think they may be able to recommend an attorney or ARE attorney themselves willing to help please PM or tell me to PM you. I am unable to disclose any details (including the state) in this post.

I am wondering most if #3 is a deal breaker. I personally feel that I would rather have that amended to "If employment is terminated due to misconduct". The language of the contract as is seems too open ended.

Thanks!

One word...

 

[hook_dupin]

adobe pro?

The contract could say this:

Folks,


1. Company agrees to advance the pilot training expense

2. If I fail the training I will not have to refund the company the total cost of training

3. If employment is terminated for any reason, with or without cause, prior to 12 consecutive months of active service after the completion of training, I do not agree to refund the company on the pro rata basis.

Return it signed. The company likely won't even read it and will blindly sign your version of the training contract.

For a really good time, write in severance should you be terminated and escalators in pay.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

The contract could say this:



Return it signed. The company likely won't even read it and will blindly sign your version of the training contract.

For a really good time, write in severance should you be terminated and escalators in pay.

Well, that USED to work (really)... before you posted this. Why you did that??????

 

[hook_dupin]

Well, that USED to work (really)... before you posted this. Why you did that??????

This is like saying that the "You preflight the pitot tube by blowing in it" trick will never work again.

 

[gotWXdagain]

This is like saying that the "You preflight the pitot tube by blowing in it" trick will never work again.

(Said to many new King Air FO's after engines shutdown): Hey, you gotta go spin the propellers now to help cool the engine down. I'll tell you when it's done!

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

You can send me a PM with your state. I may or may not know someone there. Generally speaking, a few observations:

One, discussions on tuition reimbursement contracts are common here. The general consensus of pilots is, they suck. The general consensus of employers is, they are necessary. Go figure.

Two, you don't need an "aviation attorney." You need an employment lawyer. Tuition reimbursement contracts are not unique to aircraft type ratings. They are used in a number of other industries where training is costly and employers are worried about employees getting trained and then marketing their new skills elsewhere. There may be industry-specific nuances that can make them enforceable or not in some states, but overall it's an employment law issue far more than an aviation one.

Three, this may be implicit in Two but, yes, this is a very state specific question. Here for example is a blog discussing a California case. Notice toward the end where it mentions that, along with cases where they have been enforced, there are cases in which they have been rejected.

Four, the fact that an employer insists on one does not automatically mean they are not negotiable.

 

[averettpilot]

I'd be more worried about #2 before I was #3. Got to pass the checkride before you can get fired. You mean to tell me you're going to pay for training that you fail AND you won't have a job?

As for #3, what if they sell your aircraft?

Don't sign training contracts.

I'm not a lawyer.

 

[gotWXdagain]

I'd be more worried about #2 before I was #3. Got to pass the checkride before you can get fired. You mean to tell me you're going to pay for training that you fail AND you won't have a job?

As for #3, what if they sell your aircraft?

Don't sign training contracts.

I'm not a lawyer.

Another big problem with #3 is if your company becomes insolvent, that contract becomes an asset that creditors can use to come after you personally.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Another big problem with #3 is if your company becomes insolvent, that contract becomes an asset that creditors can use to come after you personally.

And you might not even be able to deduct the cost of your training - in fact, as you've described it, the IRS would likely view it as income to YOU.

 

[z987k]

Those terms are not even remotely reasonable.

I'd consider a training contract as long as there's a severance package in case the airplane or my job disappear for any reason. It would have to be mutually beneficial.

 

[flyinghedgehog]

Update: there is a clause there that says I am not responsible for repayment if I am released from employment due to reasons out of my control, such as if the aircraft I was trained on is no longer available (totaled, sold, etc).

MidlifeFlyer answered my phone call and , long story short it is a good idea to reach out to employment lawyer and modify the contract language so it is more specfic. It is a little bit too broad as it is.