National Seniority List

Status
Not open for further replies.
Velocipede said:
Not at all. YOU explain why a non-Union or Anti-Union pilot should be extended UNION negotiated privileges.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of things that go into jumpseat privleges. At my small company we convinced management that the considerable expense the company had to bear was worth it to help their pilots get to work. And we gladly extended that benefit to any pilot that was eligible. Most of them were union pilots, like UPS. Why in god's name you would want to make a war out of a simple courtesy is still well beyond me. You are about making enemies where it's just not necessary to make enemies. It may give you some kind of perverse pleasure, but it will actually work against your goal of furthering unionization, imho. Fortunately, there don't seem to be many out there that agree with your approach.
 
PCL_128 said:
I don't know where you get this idea of it being "vindictive." I ask again: if a guy on the street is trying to mug you, would you hand him your concealed weapon to help him out? It's essentially the same thing. The non-union pilot is commuting to a job that is used by management to apply downward pressure on your wages, work rules, and benefits. Why are you giving him a helping hand in accomplishing that? I have no desire for revenge, but I also have no desire to help someone screw me over.
Click to expand...

For one thing your approach requires assuming that every "guy on the street" is going to mug you. You don't know whether the non-union guy asking for your jumpseat is on your side or not. It's pretty damned hard to start a union airline. Most have to be organized after the start-up.

And yeah, extending a helping hand to a pilot you'd like to see join you in being a union member is exactly what you should do.
 
Velocipede said:
Not at all. YOU explain why a non-Union or Anti-Union pilot should be extended UNION negotiated privileges.
Click to expand...

What if your company negotiates jumpseat privileges without a union?

At regions we had jumpseat agreements with all kinds of people, you ride on us, we ride on you..

Zero of them were "union negotiated.."
 
flyover said:
The amazing thing is you seem to want all airline pilots to unite under ALPA or at least unionize, but you're more interested in being petty and vindictive than doing things to actually further that goal.
Click to expand...

Therein lies the truth. As much as people like PCL and Velo talk about wanting pilots unified under ALPA, their actions demonstrate that it is more important to them to hate and hurt non-union pilots.

When I joined AWAC, the local ALPA reps came in and gave a presentation about the union. They bought us lunch, got to know us a little, and talked about all the good stuff that ALPA brings to the table. They did not come in and hammer the class with threats and intimidation. PCL and Velo would be well served to follow their example. It obviously accomplishes more than their way.
 
You are so typical of bleeding heart America. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is practicing "hate".

Grow up. There's room for diverse opinions. That's what America is about.

And the jumpseat is issued SOLELY at the discretion of the Captain, jumpseat agreements notwithstanding.
 
Velocipede said:
You are so typical of bleeding heart America. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is practicing "hate".
Click to expand...

Was this pointed at me?

Velocipede said:
Grow up. There's room for diverse opinions. That's what America is about.
Click to expand...

This coming from a guy who wants to deny the jumpseat to people who are not members of a union? Grow up.. There's room for diverse opinions.. That's what America is about.. ;)

Velocipede said:
And the jumpseat is issued SOLELY at the discretion of the Captain, jumpseat agreements notwithstanding.
Click to expand...

I thought you said the ability to sit on a jumpseat was a.. "UNION negotiated privilege." Now, it's basically a privilege extended by the captain?

Which is it?
 
Velocipede said:
You are so typical of bleeding heart America. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is practicing "hate".
Click to expand...

Anyone who is non-union or anti-union is practicing hate. Funny how you contradict yourself there lol!

Like I said earlier..... if we don't play by your sandbox rules we're just told to stay out. So why would someone who was non-union all of a sudden decide to join because he or she was just "denied" a seat due to his/her affiliation. And I'm sure that someone who is anti-union wouldn't get warm fuzzies from someone denying them due to their stance.... versus "hey, I know you feel this way, let's talk".

You'd think that decent human beings would act grown up as opposed to being like kids in cliques.
 
"Why in god's name you would want to make a war out of a simple courtesy is still well beyond me"

Cause he's whacked. Just follow his posts. Too much snow in Spokane or something....
 
Alright folks. Yet again, another clear example why they need to legalize the recreational use of marijuana for commercial airline pilots.

Ya'll are a little too testy this morning! GEEZ!
 
Doug Taylor said:
Alright folks. Yet again, another clear example why they need to legalize the recreational use of marijuana for commercial airline pilots.

Ya'll are a little too testy this morning! GEEZ!
Click to expand...

Yes! Forget the jumpseat, if we all come together we can end the insane War on Drugs! :buck:
 
I just can't decide whether Velo or PCL has more solidly earned the callsign "Norma Rae."

But I'm leaning toward PCL.... ;)
 
Ya'll kids are getting crabby.

I figured I'd lead the other ALPA thread through enough crap about jumpseat wars that maybe we'd decided it was a bad idea after all.

Guess not.

So how's about this: Maybe we get ALPA's membership off our collective asses and work on finding ways to make the union so appealing that you'd be an idiot to even CONSIDER not wanting to join.

Eh?

Flies. Honey. Vinegar. Ya'll readin' this?
 
Tram said:
Was this pointed at me?
Click to expand...

Nope. skydog.

This coming from a guy who wants to deny the jumpseat to people who are not members of a union?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Opinon is one thing. Actively undercutting MY contract is quite something else. You can work for on a non-Union basis all you want. Just don't come asking ME for a free ride. That seems fair enough.

I thought you said the ability to sit on a jumpseat was a.. "UNION negotiated privilege." Now, it's basically a privilege extended by the captain?

Which is it?
Click to expand...

It is. Ask the next older Delta pilot what they had to give up in their contract to get access to their own jumpseat. Non-Union Companies who have reciprocal jumpseat agreements are basicly using the other airlines for free crew transportation.

While the jumpseat privilege is UNION negotiated, it is CAPTAIN administered. Do you understand the difference? No Captain may be told who gets to ride the jumpseat. It is entirely up to his discretion.

In ALPA, there are guidelines. One of those guidelines is that individual Captains may require a Union Card. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

I guess only non-Union pilots who want free rides look at the jumpseat as a "courtesy" as opposed to the privilege. BTW, it is never a "RIGHT".
 
Like I said earlier..... if we don't play by your sandbox rules we're just told to stay out. So why would someone who was non-union all of a sudden decide to join because he or she was just "denied" a seat due to his/her affiliation.
Click to expand...

They wouldn't. But, perhaps if it was made too hard for them to commute to and from work, they would think twice about their choice of employers.

Once again, jumpseating is a UNION negotiated privilege that shouldn't be extended to those who seek to undercut our contracts.

And, for the record, a differing opinon does not constitute "hate speech", Oprah.
 
flyover said:
There are a lot of things that go into jumpseat privleges. At my small company we convinced management that the considerable expense the company had to bear was worth it to help their pilots get to work.
Click to expand...

The day after 9/11, Captain Woerth (former ALPA President) was called by Norm Minetta (former Transportation Secretary) to participate in a conference call about the changes that were going to take place in airline security as a result of the attacks. During this call, Captain Woerth was told that "this is the end of jumpseating." The government's plan was to close all jumpseat access to everyone except checkairmen, Secret Service, and FAA & NTSB inspectors. Duane immediately went to work to make sure this didn't happen, and only after a few days of heavy lobbying and threats from the union did jumpseat access get restored to on-line pilots with plans to implement CASS in the future. In other words, your access to the jumpseat today is directly attributable to THE pilots' union. Without ALPA, jumpseats would be a thing of the past. It wasn't the Air Transport Association, SWAPA, AOPA, or anyone else that saved the jumpseat; it was ALPA.
 
flyover said:
You don't know whether the non-union guy asking for your jumpseat is on your side or not.
Click to expand...

I know by his reaction when I ask to see his union card. If he responds with a bunch of justifications for being non-union, "sorry, no jumpseat for you." If he calmly explains that they aren't unionized yet, but that he hopes to have one soon, then I'll give him a ride. You can tell everything about a guy's attitude towards unions just by the look on his face when you ask him for his union card.

It's pretty damned hard to start a union airline. Most have to be organized after the start-up.
Click to expand...

You're talking to an experienced organizer. I think I know a thing or two about unionization.
 
skydog said:
When I joined AWAC, the local ALPA reps came in and gave a presentation about the union. They bought us lunch, got to know us a little, and talked about all the good stuff that ALPA brings to the table. They did not come in and hammer the class with threats and intimidation. PCL and Velo would be well served to follow their example. It obviously accomplishes more than their way.
Click to expand...

You mean they did all of the exact same things that I did as an ALPA rep at my previous carrier? You make too many assumptions, little man. I don't go into new hire classes and "hammer" anyone with anything. This is a completely different subject. Giving jumpseat access to someone so they can go to their job where they undercut you and leech off of your hard work is asinine.
 
PCL,

"Methinks the Lady doth protest too much."

You ever get the feeling that the local opposition to our position is mostly made up of non or anti-Union pilots?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top