National Seniority List

[flyover]

I have no problem with informed members that have gripes. But the average member has never even shown up to a Local Council meeting, so their gripes carry zero weight.

It's the laziest form of debate. You don't agree with me because you don't know as much as I do.

 

[Gonzo]

What would you have had ALPA do? ALPA had no power to help these pilots, despite what they'd like you to believe that ALPA could have done. ALPA is not a magic wand that can be waved to solve problems. ALPA works within systems: government, the RLA, its own Bylaws, etc... You probably think ALPA should have gotten these pilots jobs. That's a nice thought, but ALPA doesn't hire pilots, and ALPA doesn't control the hiring process at any companies. At best, ALPA gets a seat at the Captains' interview board to interview and give a yea/nay to each applicant. Even that little bit is only at certain carriers.

Do you know why: 1) Not a real union, 2) No pilot group (my bad one did EAL) is ever willing to give up anything so they can help a fellow pilot. Between $10 more a hour or writing something in the contract that would help fellow pilots, all the other pilots wanted was their $10.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Do you know why: 1) Not a real union, 2) No pilot group (my bad one did EAL) is ever willing to give up anything so they can help a fellow pilot. Between $10 more a hour or writing something in the contract that would help fellow pilots, all the other pilots wanted was their $10.

What you describe isn't a failure of ALPA, it's a failure of the character of pilots. Pilots are selfish, and they vote for their own interests. ALPA is a democracy. When a majority choose to focus on the things that you are talking about, then those things will get done. Your beef is with democracy, not with ALPA.

 

[flyover]

What you describe isn't a failure of ALPA, it's a failure of the character of pilots. Pilots are selfish, and they vote for their own interests. ALPA is a democracy. When a majority choose to focus on the things that you are talking about, then those things will get done. Your beef is with democracy, not with ALPA.

These are words I can heartily agree with. I've been in ALPA long enough to see the transition from a union led by strong representatives chosen by the members for their leadership ability, to a democracy that polls it's members on the most minor of issues. It has resulted in a weaker union and not had the desired goal of cutting dissent and appeasing complainers, quite the opposite. But that was predictable and it's been hard to watch it unfold.

 

[Shhhh not while im flyin]

Hey hey sorry im here! Am i too late for bi***fest 2008?

I thought this was about NSL?

Well i got some change so ill throw in mtc

The whole point of a NSL, in my mind, isn't to preserve your position at another airline it is to preserve your pay to a realistic ability.

But the things you're talking about Ryan, are, if you will, above my pay grade.

My job is first and foremost to make sure that I operate the aircraft safely.

Not on time.

Not while treating people well.

Not upside down.

Safe.

Now that's not to say I'm going to screw the customers outright, there's no reason for that. To be honest I feel pretty bad for these people when it hits the fan and things get canceled or delayed. But I won't ever do something I think is unsafe to shave off a few minutes or complete a flight that I think is a really bad idea. Honestly? That has never been a problem, dispatch and the captains I've flown with have been excellent. I haven't been backed into a corner yet where I really feel like we're doing something really, really, really stupid and REALLY need to speak up while the captain is flying willy nilly into a thunderstorm to shave off 30 seconds.

The union allows us the ability to do that without worrying about the backlash from the company. Let's give an example:

Say you get to the plane at the out station and your brake wear indicators are past the point where you can depart. Actually, let's just say ONE of them is past the point. Now you know, realistically, that the airplane will stop and you've got TONS of brakes left on the plane. And heck, even if one caliper won't close up the other three will and you've still got reversers right?

So do you ignore it and go about your business and make the company some money and not inconvenience some people? Or do you say, "Nope, not gonna fly this thing. I don't care if we're at an out station with no MX, we're not departing unless there's an MEL or some other legal way we can do this."

You'll stand 50 people overnight, they'll miss their connections, the company will lose tons of money, etc. etc. What do YOU do, and who protects you from the manager that gets up in your face about your decision who says, "You KNEW it was fine to depart, you just cost this company thousands of dollars, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah." Me? I call the union and tell them to take care of the schmuck. If you're at a non union company it might not be that easy. You could call the FAA and be a whistleblower, but we know how far that gets people.

Or I guess put in simpler terms, we're in a safety oriented industry, not a customer service oriented industry. Who cares how well the customers get taken care of if we kill all of them.

I agree. Safety is our number 1, 2, 3, and 4th priority. But customer service is 5th and very important.

 

[Kristie]

so what's your change? i see a bunch of old quoted posts but nothing really new.

If you'd like to resurrect this topic, i'd say the best idea would be to start a new thread so we can moderate it better than this old thread was.