Morbid curiosity. Upgrade times?

Excuse me, WHAT? Almost as confusing as 'A' and 'B'...
It always made me laugh. The über-senior, baby B-scalers always bragged about how dangerous international was and how special you had to be to fly international (sure some airports are tricky), but needing a special qual to go to Cancun? Give me a break.

I needed a special qual and division to go to Cancun, but Mexico City? Here, look at these pictures.
 
That's where the ETOPS seat lock is the monkey wrench. The luckiest guy in the company is the guy who gets something east of Vegas a month before the first junior Captain's seat lock expires. (Assuming that's possible)

Well, that escalated quickly. According to the latest vacancy projection my class is eligible for OAK Captain on the July bid. I’ve been here 8.5 years. Lots to consider.

Pros:
  • Be in the left seat before any more black swan events or the increase to age 67
  • Sick time / disability pays at Captain rates
  • Bump in 401K contributions, profit sharing etc.
  • Career goals. Not getting any younger. I turn 49 in Oct.
Cons:
  • 3-4 hour commute over several time zones
  • Lose control over schedule - back to weekend reserve
  • Lose at least one day off per week to commuting
  • Cost of commuter hotels, Uber etc
  • Lost seniority for vacation bidding
  • 6 months ETOPS domicile lock (OAK, LAX, LAS)
  • Away from home during son’s last two years of high school
Big question is where do I want to be if the music stops today, junior left seat or senior right seat? And will I have regrets if I choose to bypass, and then the music stops due to age 67, recession, another pandemic, a merger….?
 
Well, that escalated quickly. According to the latest vacancy projection my class is eligible for OAK Captain on the July bid. I’ve been here 8.5 years. Lots to consider.

Pros:
  • Be in the left seat before any more black swan events or the increase to age 67
  • Sick time / disability pays at Captain rates
  • Bump in 401K contributions, profit sharing etc.
  • Career goals. Not getting any younger. I turn 49 in Oct.
Cons:
  • 3-4 hour commute over several time zones
  • Lose control over schedule - back to weekend reserve
  • Lose at least one day off per week to commuting
  • Cost of commuter hotels, Uber etc
  • Lost seniority for vacation bidding
  • 6 months ETOPS domicile lock (OAK, LAX, LAS)
  • Away from home during son’s last two years of high school
Big question is where do I want to be if the music stops today, junior left seat or senior right seat? And will I have regrets if I choose to bypass, and then the music stops due to age 67, recession, another pandemic, a merger….?

What does your wife say in conversations that you've had regarding this topic? Also both ALPA and the APA both came strongly out against age 67/68. Without major unions supporting it, does that make it DOA?
 
What does your wife say in conversations that you've had regarding this topic? Also both ALPA and the APA both came strongly out against age 67/68. Without major unions supporting it, does that make it DOA?

She’s told me she supports me whatever I want to do. So she’s useless.

And I’m not convinced the pilot unions will have much sway when the airlines self destruct this summer due to staffing and politicians feel the need to do “something” to show they’re useful in the lead up to the midterms.
 
Well, that escalated quickly. According to the latest vacancy projection my class is eligible for OAK Captain on the July bid. I’ve been here 8.5 years. Lots to consider.

Pros:
  • Be in the left seat before any more black swan events or the increase to age 67
  • Sick time / disability pays at Captain rates
  • Bump in 401K contributions, profit sharing etc.
  • Career goals. Not getting any younger. I turn 49 in Oct.
Cons:
  • 3-4 hour commute over several time zones
  • Lose control over schedule - back to weekend reserve
  • Lose at least one day off per week to commuting
  • Cost of commuter hotels, Uber etc
  • Lost seniority for vacation bidding
  • 6 months ETOPS domicile lock (OAK, LAX, LAS)
  • Away from home during son’s last two years of high school
Big question is where do I want to be if the music stops today, junior left seat or senior right seat? And will I have regrets if I choose to bypass, and then the music stops due to age 67, recession, another pandemic, a merger….?
What good is the left seat if you’ll just get displaced in a black swan? Being a junior commuter to reserve sounds miserable. You can just pickup a few trips a year and makeup the pay difference, right?
 
What good is the left seat if you’ll just get displaced in a black swan? Being a junior commuter to reserve sounds miserable. You can just pickup a few trips a year and makeup the pay difference, right?
I freely admit it isn’t a pay issue, it’s ego. I’ve been an FO for 26 years. (I don’t count “co-Captain” flying corporate) and I’m admittedly anxious to jump the trash bag.
 
You loco, holmes. I was El Jefe for most of my career...now I go to work and all I have to do is fly the airplane and talk on the radio, it's like a permanent vacation. "Oh, there's a problem? Sounds serious, someone should definitely do something. *returns to newspaper*"

They're going to have to drag me back over the pedestal kicking and screaming.
 
"Oh, there's a problem? Sounds serious, someone should definitely do something. *returns to newspaper*"
They're going to have to drag me back over the pedestal kicking and screaming.

I was the same way. Especially with the second year F/O pay bump back in 98. I can think of several senior F/O lines I held that went away. GEG-DSM day flying 9 days a month and lived in Spokane. BFI-YVR with weekend layovers in YVR. GDL-ONT day turns, week on, week off, and we didn't work Thursdays. Never would have upgraded or even retired at 60 had those niche schedules gone away. Boy how things changed.
 
Pros:
  • Be in the left seat before any more black swan events or the increase to age 67
  • Sick time / disability pays at Captain rates
  • Bump in 401K contributions, profit sharing etc.
  • Career goals. Not getting any younger. I turn 49 in Oct.
Cons:
  • 3-4 hour commute over several time zones
  • Lose control over schedule - back to weekend reserve
  • Lose at least one day off per week to commuting
  • Cost of commuter hotels, Uber etc
  • Lost seniority for vacation bidding
  • 6 months ETOPS domicile lock (OAK, LAX, LAS)
  • Away from home during son’s last two years of high school

Just for reference, I was 45, and bypassed for a good 10 years. The super easy F/O line I had parked myself on, day flying with no commute, went away, and I found I could hold the next best thing in the left seat, so why not. Much more for you to consider. What jumps out at me is quality time with your son at this key time and the seat lock. If the seat lock is only six months, would you be able to move out of OAK, and improve your QOL? I guess my thoughts are if the real bad pain of being based in OAK is only six months, it might be worth the sacrifice. I've heard you guys have generous trip drop rules? Maybe plan on improving your schedule by dropping trips down to your current pay level to improve QOL for a couple years?
 
Sounds like you’ll regret it either way. Might as well check the box and see if you like it better. I’m going from 35% to 90% wasn’t even a question of whether upgrading was the right move. I’ll be a commuter my entire career.
 
Well, that escalated quickly. According to the latest vacancy projection my class is eligible for OAK Captain on the July bid. I’ve been here 8.5 years. Lots to consider.

Pros:
  • Be in the left seat before any more black swan events or the increase to age 67
  • Sick time / disability pays at Captain rates
  • Bump in 401K contributions, profit sharing etc.
  • Career goals. Not getting any younger. I turn 49 in Oct.
Cons:
  • 3-4 hour commute over several time zones
  • Lose control over schedule - back to weekend reserve
  • Lose at least one day off per week to commuting
  • Cost of commuter hotels, Uber etc
  • Lost seniority for vacation bidding
  • 6 months ETOPS domicile lock (OAK, LAX, LAS)
  • Away from home during son’s last two years of high school
Big question is where do I want to be if the music stops today, junior left seat or senior right seat? And will I have regrets if I choose to bypass, and then the music stops due to age 67, recession, another pandemic, a merger….?
One question since I'm too lazy to look, how far off on the projections of LAX junior captain are you? Could you bid OAK then transfer to LAX during training on the August vacancy? Goes without saying that LA is way easier than OAK to commute, and with more upgrades and hiring planned you should be able to start making your way east thorough the ETOPS bases.

I think age 67 is a no go for at least a few years yet with ALPA being against it. My own useless friends and coworkers polling says everyone that I've asked has said "no" to the SWAPA internal poll as well. Time will tell how scientific that is...

Losing vacation seniority is going to sting for sure though. I've finally cracked into the top half in DEN and should maybe hold a good summer week next year.
 
One question since I'm too lazy to look, how far off on the projections of LAX junior captain are you? Could you bid OAK then transfer to LAX during training on the August vacancy? Goes without saying that LA is way easier than OAK to commute, and with more upgrades and hiring planned you should be able to start making your way east thorough the ETOPS bases.

I think age 67 is a no go for at least a few years yet with ALPA being against it. My own useless friends and coworkers polling says everyone that I've asked has said "no" to the SWAPA internal poll as well. Time will tell how scientific that is...

Losing vacation seniority is going to sting for sure though. I've finally cracked into the top half in DEN and should maybe hold a good summer week next year.

Interestingly DEN is projected to go junior to LAX this time around. Still 200 numbers senior to OAK though.

200 doesn't sound like that many until the music stops... then it's a whole lot!
 
I freely admit it isn’t a pay issue, it’s ego. I’ve been an FO for 26 years. (I don’t count “co-Captain” flying corporate) and I’m admittedly anxious to jump the trash bag.
Does SW really have many 64 year olds right now? Even if retirement was extended I would think SW would be one of the least effected.
 
I freely admit it isn’t a pay issue, it’s ego. I’ve been an FO for 26 years. (I don’t count “co-Captain” flying corporate) and I’m admittedly anxious to jump the trash bag.

Being a CA is definitely nice. Most of the people I fly with are great, but those occasional trips with a weirdo definitely made me want to upgrade after chilling out in the right seat for several years. I can’t even imagine being a chameleon for 26 years.

Out of curiosity, what’s the crashpad situation like in OAK for you guys? I will be doing reserve out there next fall, and am tempted to just do hotels unless there are some really nice crashpads. I’m absolutely not doing the regional pilot bunk bed crap again.
 
Interestingly DEN is projected to go junior to LAX this time around. Still 200 numbers senior to OAK though.

200 doesn't sound like that many until the music stops... then it's a whole lot!
That does sound really close and would lessen the pain a lot. Sounds like a good plan.
 
Well, that escalated quickly. According to the latest vacancy projection my class is eligible for OAK Captain on the July bid. I’ve been here 8.5 years. Lots to consider.

Pros:
  • Be in the left seat before any more black swan events or the increase to age 67
  • Sick time / disability pays at Captain rates
  • Bump in 401K contributions, profit sharing etc.
  • Career goals. Not getting any younger. I turn 49 in Oct.
Cons:
  • 3-4 hour commute over several time zones
  • Lose control over schedule - back to weekend reserve
  • Lose at least one day off per week to commuting
  • Cost of commuter hotels, Uber etc
  • Lost seniority for vacation bidding
  • 6 months ETOPS domicile lock (OAK, LAX, LAS)
  • Away from home during son’s last two years of high school
Big question is where do I want to be if the music stops today, junior left seat or senior right seat? And will I have regrets if I choose to bypass, and then the music stops due to age 67, recession, another pandemic, a merger….?

If the music stops?

Wouldn’t there be displacement bid(s) then? Or are you saying just no more vacancy bids? I guess it depends on how bad a music stop scenario is.
 
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Being a CA is definitely nice. Most of the people I fly with are great, but those occasional trips with a weirdo definitely made me want to upgrade after chilling out in the right seat for several years. I can’t even imagine being a chameleon for 26 years.

Out of curiosity, what’s the crashpad situation like in OAK for you guys? I will be doing reserve out there next fall, and am tempted to just do hotels unless there are some really nice crashpads. I’m absolutely not doing the regional pilot bunk bed crap again.

Is HKG FDA permanently closed?
 
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