Mid-Air Collision near LGB

mshunter said:
I hate to post a link like this, but I feel it is necessary to prove a point. I guess it's only GA who makes mistakes. Just browse the videos here and tell me what'cha think velo.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/web_video/runway_safety.html

FWIW, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that approximately 75% of ALL airline pilots came from a GA background (i.e. non-military). And the future of the airlines is looking like about 90% will be from GA. Face it Velo, you are a dying breed, and the future is in GA. For training and otherwise.
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Those are professionals, they don't make mistakes.


While I do agree that a professional pilot is much more able to fly jets than a VFR Cessna pilot. It doesn't mean us little guys can't be safe too - and that we need to be user fee'd to death and regulated to death like some may suggest.
 
Define a "VFR Cessna Pilot" I do not see that anywhere on the certificate...

On the flip side, I do not see "professional Pilot" anywhere on there either.

People make mistakes, "professional" or not.

RD
 
rd757 said:
Define a "VFR Cessna Pilot" I do not see that anywhere on the certificate...

On the flip side, I do not see "professional Pilot" anywhere on their either.

People make mistakes, "professional" or not.

RD
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A private pilot is a VFR Cessna pilot:D
 
Ever taken a "professional jet pilot" and stuck them in a complex HP single engine plane? All I will say is just because you can fly an A320 or a 757 does not mean that you can hop into a "VFR Cessna" and fly safely.

Just as I would most likely hurt myself in a 757, without training and currency it works the other way as well.

Point being, I dont think one form of aviation is better than another. A single engine Cessna driver with 41 hrs and a PPL met a high standard and has earned a license to learn and pratice aviaition. I have respect for all of my fellow aviators.
 
SFCC/UND said:
Captain Morgen
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fail-spelling.jpg
 
Damn!!

They're saying that the C172 is from Aero Aviatoin. I got my private from that school, formerly known as Aviation West. After I got my private, all their instructors moved up to the regionals. Then they hired a group of newbies and it went sour. I recommended the school to one of my friends, but after talking to him in late 2005 I told him to quit because I didn't like how his instructor was working with him. A couple weeks later, his instructor got in an airplane accident (i think this was on 9/11/06). It really made me question their training program and the CFI's training....

During the last couple of years, my old friend (now my housemate) started flying at the same school, but he ran out of money and suspended his training. I talked to him about his training and I also wasn't pleased, so when my housemate started flying again, he started elsewhere... now the news thinks it was his old flight instructor that perished. This is just one of those small-world moments, ya know?


It's an unfortunate event which reminds us all to be careful and not let our guard down... so I hope everyone out there doesn't take it too lightly... i carry a picture of my friend (Tyler, perished in a airplane accident in NYC) in my flight bag to remind me that it can happen to any one of us...

Stay safe and may those who have departed rest in peace...
 
Velocipede said:
Listen, I have NO problem with that. Just take your training out of congested airspace and out to Palmdale.

That's what the military does.
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For starters, I am sick of the "I own this airspace" b.s. from you. Get of your high horse, and come back down to reality. It's kinda like driving on the road. Semi trucks are dangerous, but we still have to share the road with them. Commercial aircraft and GA all have to share the air, so just get over it, or give up flying if you think we are so dangerous. Bottom line, even if user fee's take affect, WE WILL STILL BE THERE. So mabey it's you that has the problem, not us.

2nd, I usually go out to the Santa Clarita Valley, or the Santa Paula Aero box to train pilots. But just to spite you, I think I'll start going to the LGB practice area more often.:D

Have a nice evening. See you around SNA in the next few days.
 
Pipe down a bit man, because if I have to come back from festive cocktails and I've got to tamp down on another flame fest, I'm going to be pissy. And I tend to be a little trigger happy and my aim's way off.
 
mshunter said:
How did this thread go from a mid-air to what it currently is?
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The same retarded "airlines better & more important than any other thing in the sky" attitude that has killed GA in Europe is at work here. Just wait!
Seen it before, and if it's not stopped in it's tracks it's like a slow growing undetected cancer. :rolleyes:
By the time GA Pilots wake up, they notice that their enemy citizen groups have united with Airline Captains, acting as their "consultants" against healthy fees. Basically a redefinition of "friendly fire".....
 
mshunter said:
FWIW, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that approximately 75% of ALL airline pilots came from a GA background (i.e. non-military). And the future of the airlines is looking like about 90% will be from GA. Face it Velo, you are a dying breed, and the future is in GA. For training and otherwise.
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The airline industry has worked for years (and very hard at this!) to change this fact. It's no longer the case, and it won't be in the future. There will be so called PFTO's(selfdeclared, selfcontrolled puppymills) producing 90% of all airline pilots. They will (thats not a dream, this has happened before) declare themselfes and what they represent the ELITE and hack everything to pieces that interferes with their marshallplan. Part 61 trained pilots can be shunned in many different ways. Didn't go to a PFTO for $150K? Nope, can't work for Continental Express, Sorry! They'll claim you're not standardized enough to reach to their high standards even if you can fly half their staff into the wall... They'll pump out so many students ready to go for on the job training that unless they are being regulated again you may see CA's flying for 30K/ Year.

All part of a bigger agenda mshunter. Just: nobody wants to speak about it. It's inconvenient to declare war on what you depend on. The airline industry still needs us. Velo's argument may look strange to you today, but three or four years from now it will all make perfect sense.
 
Cessna414JJB said:
All part of a bigger agenda mshunter. Just: nobody wants to speak about it. It's inconvenient to declare war on what you depend on. The airline industry still needs us. Velo's argument may look strange to you today, but three or four years from now it will all make perfect sense.
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Not sure what you mean by this? PFTO's (pay for time operations)? Are the airlines getting wise to places like ATP? FSI? Not flameing, just not fully understanding the nature of the post... :confused:
 
Ok, after a couple of cocktails:

I love GA and I enjoy the hell out of my job.

And I don't feel conflicted! :)

If I find a quarter share of a DA-42 with the Lycoming engine or the new advanced turbodiesel, I'm gettin' it! ;)
 
Markf64 said:
I am wondering the same thing. Please keep in mind that three fellow pilots died in this accident. Tragic to be sure. I would hope that as the details and facts of this accident come out, that we can all learn from this accident. In the meantime, please say a prayer for the loved ones left behind.
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I don't know what happened in this situation but just from judging by where this happened I think I can safely say that the same lesson will come from this accident as many more that have happened in this same area and probably any other "practice area" that is listed on a chart or is commonly used as a practice area. The problem is that people ignore the lesson.

When you are flying out of an airport that is near a city, you can't just expect to leave the pattern and start running through all the flight maneuvers in .5 and be back at the airport to get in a couple landings before you crack the $200 mark on your training flight. Students need to realize this and instructors need to stop giving in to it. Go fly somewhere farther away from the busy areas right around airports.

Just because the chart lists a frequency, and the FAA advises that you do clearing turns before each maneuver doesn't mean you will be safe. Those guys involved could have done everything perfectly by the book and that high wing and low wing combination can negate it all. As a pilot, you are trained to make smart decisions and to me, going into an area that you know there are multiple other aircraft passing through and doing maneuvers is not the best idea.

From Long Beach it only takes about 10-15 minutes or so to get back behind the Santa Ana Mountains, even less to go down to the Dana Point area and this little trip gives you an actual real life flight to negotiate. It will cost a little more than doing those stalls as soon as you cross that dotted blue line on the chart, but you are buying safety. If you can't afford that, then maybe you should pass on buying some other safety features too. Who needs those seat belts? Fire extinguisher, those are expensive, current and proficient, can't afford it.

So back to the original point... What we need to learn from mid-airs that happen in known busy areas is, it's a big sky, using more of it will decrease the amount of accidents like this.
 
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