Mesa interview on Wed

On a standup you could fly and reposition airplanes all night if they want you to . . . I don't believe in abuse, but a 3 hour STANDUP is being on duty the whole time. Am I wrong?:confused:
 
So, is it "inhumane" to have a 3 hour sit during the day at an airport between flights?? That's all the 'standup' is, but it's at night. You're working the night shift; you're on duty, you're not required to, or perhaps even expected to sleep. Other people who work night shifts sleep during the day, and stay awake at their job during their night shift. Does it suck? I guess, if you make it suck. Treat it like the night shift it is; bring a book to read, or something to do, during your time on duty.

Just playing devil's advocate, I guess.
 
Once again. . .work rules - they mean something. At least mine do, and I'm sure everyone else who has provisions in their contracts for single occupancy lodging during CDOs/NAPs/Standups will agree - they don't want the bottom feeder (opinion; and notice not pointing fingers) in regards to the lack of work rules to start to bring that portion of our contracts down.

We like our work rules, and we will fight to keep them - even if your guys (no one in particular specifically - just companies who lack a contract, or who have a contract and lack the work rule provisions that we are currently discussing) are unable to secure the same.

Don't think anyone is saying these types of operations are inhumane - they have to be done, people have to be moved. Also, does it suck? Who knows. I didn't mind my limited NAP(CDO) experience - then again I have some work rules that provide a nice relaxing room to get any additional rest I would like.

Something has to be said about our circadian rhythms. I like that some AMEs, Doctors, sleep Experts, and the FAA of all people recognize the changes that pilots who transition from a day to night to day to day to day to night to night schedule have to deal with.

But sure - it sucks - I guess. I haven't had to spend the night in an airplane yet though, but I'm sure that really does suck. And I feel for the poor bastards that have to put up with such things. I mean, I know management wants to treat us all like truck drivers - and make us sleep in our transportation device; but I'm no trucker for a reason - at least for now.
 
Most everyone like Comair's pre bankruptcy contract, right?

Guess what?

Less than 4 hours for a sit no matter what time of day = no hotel.

Just the same as Mesa.

And I bet a lot of other contracts, Including Continental's.

Its just that the sit that they have is so short that it doesn't trigger the hotel clause, for them, and a lot of other contracts. Not Mesas fault, they just do the flying that Airways tells them to do. If they get kicked out, whoever replaces them will be doing the same thing.

Like Cam said, you are flying the night shift, treat it as such.

You dont hear UPS and FedEx guys complain about 3 hour sits for the sorts in the middle of the night. Its the same thing.

Get over the Mesa bashing for no reason.
 
Not Mesa bashing.

It's support for work rules, and those who fight for them.

Comparing the QOL/Work Rules of a FedEx/UPS pilot with the bottom feeder regional QOL/Work Rules is laughable at best.

But you're correct - those who go, or are at Mesa - have to work and abide by the CBA that they negotiate. So yup - deal with it huh? I'll have to remember that when one of them mentions their horrible work rules - Deal with it.

Right?
 
By the way, on the CRJ there was a 1-2 month delay for sim. I'm not sure if that still exists but if it does, well just a paid vacation. Dash -- no delay in sim, no (or short) delay in IOE.

I've never had a standup where I had to sleep in the airplane but in some ways depending on the schedule that might be nicer to have a standup, finish at 6-8AM and have the rest of the day off compared to a long layover, finishing at 3-4PM or later. Many people like standups, many people do not. It is unfortunate that they can not build standup only lines and then no-standup lines.

They're in the process of building commuting lines also here in DEN -- no show time earlier than 11AM and no end time later than 6PM is what the word is but who knows how that will work out. I don't commute but I could see how that might be nice.

On a mostly unrelated story, MAG ALPA has these little USA flag + ALPA logo ties they've been handing out -- I got one and had been wearing it. A while back I was going through PHX to get somewhere, in uniform. Going through the security checkpoint and who is it behind me but JO himself? I didn't notice until I turned around to put my stuff in a bin, he sees my tie and my Mesa wings and stares at me with such hatred I was a little taken aback... it was pretty funny.
 
surreal1221 said:
Not Mesa bashing.

It's support for work rules, and those who fight for them.

Comparing the QOL/Work Rules of a FedEx/UPS pilot with the bottom feeder regional QOL/Work Rules is laughable at best.

But you're correct - those who go, or are at Mesa - have to work and abide by the CBA that they negotiate. So yup - deal with it huh? I'll have to remember that when one of them mentions their horrible work rules - Deal with it.

Right?
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Mesa is represented by ALPA. At the time our contract was being negotiated we had a little problem known as Freedom Airlines. Perhaps our MEC should have waited a while -- then they perhaps could have got a judicial resolution but they did not, our negotiation committee sacrificed some pay and work rules in exchange for rock solid scope. I don't blame them for this, they couldn't know for sure what would happen in the future.

What I do blame them for is allowing the a-listers to come back with their seniority number in the name of "playing ball." Theres still some of those guys around here, all on the CRJ I think though so I don't really have to see them.
 
Let's not pretend that Mesa is "just another regional" that had some bad luck and wound up with substandard pay and rules. Mesa has (drumroll) ALWAYS sucked. My informants lead me to believe that they way it sucks has less to do with pay and even workrules (although they, too, suck) than with attitude and general "culture".

They paint a picture of a place where your employer is your implacable, unkillable, faceless enemy, silently stalking you always and forever and trying to kill your soul. That's like pretty much verbatim what one guy told me (slight rhetorical embellishments notwithstanding). I've known a number of people who formerly flew for Mesa. Not one of them had a single nice thing to say other than "I got my tpic fast" and "it put bread on the table". So go in with your eyes open s'all I'm sayin.

That said, all of these hissyfits about "lowering the bar" are laughable. Like you guys wouldn't take a job you wanted and felt would make you more competitive in getting to where you want to be because some dudes on the internet thought it would be bad for some hypothetical Ideal Pilot Contract at their carrier. Riiiiiiiiight. That's some good stuff right there. *armchuck*. As spira points out, Mesa is and was represented by ALPA, so if there's a problem, you should take it up with the Infallible Union.

The question isn't "will Mesa suck". Mesa will suck. The sun will rise tomorrow. The sky is blue. The questions are: "Can you handle it" and "is it worth it". Get a realistic picture. Talk to guys who work there and guys who have worked there. Believe them. Think about what they're saying and imagine yourself doing their job. Simple, yes!?
 
Boris Badenov said:
That said, all of these hissyfits about "lowering the bar" are laughable. Like you guys wouldn't take a job you wanted and felt would make you more competitive in getting to where you want to be because some dudes on the internet thought it would be bad for some hypothetical Ideal Pilot Contract at their carrier. Riiiiiiiiight. That's some good stuff right there. *armchuck*. As spira points out, Mesa is and was represented by ALPA, so if there's a problem, you should take it up with the Infallible Union.
Click to expand...

Where is the hissyfit? I mean, I know it's great imagery. . .but really - where is one?

Nevertheless, I agree with pretty much everything you wrote.

Yes, Mesa is represented by ALPA. But any issues that the pilot group has need to be taken up with their local leadership, not ALPA national. Just so there is no confusion.
 
Sure, they do. . .but not in this thread. I don't know, perhaps I expected us to wish this guy luck while discussing a side-topic associated with employment at MAG.
 
My opinion... Cause I know you cared.

It's just another regional. Another variation of the suck. If for some reason your regional sends you to a hotel for 3 hours makes you feel all warm and fuzzy then so be it.

Just the my regional is better then your regional is laughable to me. I can't wait for the regional bitch fest to include..."Dude you want to fly for them, they don't even have the current mainline colors on their planes, who would want to fly there?" "Yeah well we polish our leading edges so eff you"

It's so quiet at night.
 
This guy was one of my students. I truly wish him the best.

I also wish he would instruct to 135 mins and get a man's job, but hey, if wishes were horses then beggars would ride. :D
 
Ian J said:
This guy was one of my students. I truly wish him the best.

I also wish he would instruct to 135 mins and get a man's job, but hey, if wishes were horses then beggars would ride. :D
Click to expand...

Some of us learn this lesson too late. . .:buck:
 
mikecweb said:
My opinion... Cause I know you cared.

It's just another regional. Another variation of the suck. If for some reason your regional sends you to a hotel for 3 hours makes you feel all warm and fuzzy then so be it.

Just the my regional is better then your regional is laughable to me. I can't wait for the regional bitch fest to include..."Dude you want to fly for them, they don't even have the current mainline colors on their planes, who would want to fly there?" "Yeah well we polish our leading edges so eff you"

It's so quiet at night.
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And so we ask ourselves.....would you prefer to get kicked in the nuts with a tennis shoe or steal toed boot?
 
Ian J said:
This guy was one of my students. I truly wish him the best.

I also wish he would instruct to 135 mins and get a man's job, but hey, if wishes were horses then beggars would ride. :D
Click to expand...

And that's exactly what I'm thinking about. Everything in life is a trade off- the decisions made by what factors are important to that individual person.

I do agree with what many have said in this thread, however, and that is the Mesa bashing has to stop. While no one would consider them the best company to work for, there are plenty of worse places in the world to go to work for a living. For all those who say that we should "refuse to work at Mesa in an effort to uphold pilot's rights for us all," while a novel and moving thought, for those who have food to put on the table, it just doesn't work that way.

IF I did choose to go to Mesa, it would be MY choice, based on what what I know of the company and what working there would entail. How much due diligence I decided to do or not do, would be MY problem.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
What I do blame them for is allowing the a-listers to come back with their seniority number in the name of "playing ball." Theres still some of those guys around here, all on the CRJ I think though so I don't really have to see them.
Click to expand...

One of the Freedom-A's is the current CP at ORD.
 
For what it's worth, apparently our MEC and MGMT have come to an 'agreement' on a possible new CBA. So it looks like it might not be *too* far off that we reach a TA.

I'm not holding my breath on when this may occur, or how much of an improvement it may be, but who will everyone bash *if* our new TA is on par with or better than other regionals?! Probably still us.
 
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