Life at Compass

pullup said:
Based on your experience with military upgrades?
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The point he is trying to make is valid with what we are experiencing. If someone does not feel comfortable or hesitant, then defer until you feel ready. Compass will not be slowing down upgrades for a long time. With the attrition alone we will have to upgrade at least 10 a month after we staff for flows and the new AA flying. I commend pilots who think honestly about their current abilities. This does not mean they are poor pilots and they understand the responsibility they are about to undertake.
 
Easy does it folks... Allegiant is experiencing a similar situation and we have Captain candidates being sent back to the right seat for a multitude of reasons. Bottom line: If you don't feel ready don't take the upgrade. There is no shame in giving yourself more time to prepare, experience new situations, and perhaps glean more information/experienced based knowledge from Captains you are currently flying with. Its both scary and embarrassing when the First Officer catches the Captain continually making rookie mistakes during a line check.
 
amorris311 said:
The point he is trying to make is valid with what we are experiencing. If someone does not feel comfortable or hesitant, then defer until you feel ready. Compass will not be slowing down upgrades for a long time. With the attrition alone we will have to upgrade at least 10 a month after we staff for flows and the new AA flying. I commend pilots who think honestly about their current abilities. This does not mean they are poor pilots and they understand the responsibility they are about to undertake.
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Point taken, however I think that most hesitancy is caused just by a lack of confidence, which I feel the schoolhouse helps bolster. I agree with him in that most people are ready but, like any good pilot, will always question their abilities and not "know" they're ready unless they go through upgrade.
 
Gonna catch flack for this but I much prefer the merit based upgrades the mil uses (for the most part) vs seniority based. But I suppose the upgrade class is meant to weed out the ones not actually ready for it...
 
pullup said:
Point taken, however I think that most hesitancy is caused just by a lack of confidence, which I feel the schoolhouse helps bolster. I agree with him in that most people are ready but, like any good pilot, will always question their abilities and not "know" they're ready unless they go through upgrade.
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Now wait a second here.

I wonder how many of @Hacker15e military 'upgrades' or 'transitions' were forced on him. From my understanding sometimes in the military folks are forced into moving into an upgrade or another position or it can have severe consequences. Is that right?

No one is forcing anybody to do anything here and as mentioned if you aren't ready to upgrade and fail it can have severe consequences on your career in the civilian world ESPECIALLY at a place like Compass with folks looking to move on.
 
ian said:
Gonna catch flack for this but I much prefer the merit based upgrades the mil uses (for the most part) vs seniority based. But I suppose the upgrade class is meant to weed out the ones not actually ready for it...
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Oh my word.
 
Seggy said:
Now wait a second here.

I wonder how many of @Hacker15e military 'upgrades' or 'transitions' were forced on him. From my understanding sometimes in the military folks are forced into moving into an upgrade or another position or it can have severe consequences. Is that right?

No one is forcing anybody to do anything here and as mentioned if you aren't ready to upgrade and fail it can have severe consequences on your career in the civilian world ESPECIALLY at a place like Compass with folks looking to move on.
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From the amc world I never saw upgrades 'forced' but there were definitely career setbacks in terms of promotions for those that didn't....the guys that didn't for the most part didn't need to upgrade because they couldn't handle the responsibility and leadership recognized that for the most part
 
Seggy said:
Oh my word.
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Yes cue the seniority debate....

I still stand by the fact it should be based on one's ability and should be recommended by instructors etc....


However, I'm so new to the airline world and the current way of doing things seems to work effectively for decades so if it ain't broke don't fix it
 
ian said:
From the amc world I never saw upgrades 'forced' but there were definitely career setbacks in terms of promotions for those that didn't....the guys that didn't for the most part didn't need to upgrade because they couldn't handle the responsibility and leadership recognized that for the most part
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I've heard many military folks tell me as they are giving me their resume that 'they then had to spend some time instructing basic students...' or something like that. Like they were forced to make that move....

As I said, I could be wrong, but I stand by the fact that in the civilian world, if you don't think you are ready, don't do it.
 
ian said:
Gonna catch flack for this but I much prefer the merit based upgrades the mil uses (for the most part) vs seniority based. But I suppose the upgrade class is meant to weed out the ones not actually ready for it...
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Two different worlds. Many similarities, but two completely different worlds.
 
ian said:
Yes cue the seniority debate....

I still stand by the fact it should be based on one's ability and should be recommended by instructors etc....


However, I'm so new to the airline world and the current way of doing things seems to work effectively for decades so if it ain't broke don't fix it
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At Colgan (you know the last US airline that killed folks here in the United States), for a while, we practically had merit based upgrades.

If you haven't lived through that type of culture, well.....you really don't have anything to stand on. Merit based upgrades have NO PLACE in this industry. They do sound nice, but don't work.
 
Seggy said:
At Colgan (you know the last US airline that killed folks here in the United States), for a while, we practically had merit based upgrades.

If you haven't lived through that type of culture, you really don't have anything to stand on. Merit based upgrades have NO PLACE in this industry.
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Would have most likely stopped the 3407 CA from upgrading. Just sayin'
 
pullup said:
Point taken, however I think that most hesitancy is caused just by a lack of confidence, which I feel the schoolhouse helps bolster. I agree with him in that most people are ready but, like any good pilot, will always question their abilities and not "know" they're ready unless they go through upgrade.
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Some schoolhouses that don't have the pressures of get in, on, and out as fast a possible might have the ability to help foster pilots. In a dollar and cents world there isn't time.
 
Seggy said:
If you haven't lived through that type of culture, you really don't have anything to stand on.
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Completely fair...I only come from a world where we had guys that had been around 10+ years and we're more 'senior' to most and we're still co-pilots....because they couldn't be trusted as aircraft commanders because they would get people killed. They thought they should be aircraft commanders but everyone that ever flew with them always said no.

Different set of checks and balances
 
amorris311 said:
Once again you are wrong.

His cozy relationship with upper management is what got him through his training issues. Leading him to the cockpit of that dreaded flight.
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That's also a possibility which is why I said "most likely stopped". A downside of that system is the "kiss azz" types can always get in with the right management group and then advance. Lets just agree that the seniority system doesn't stop the incompetence. It just ensures you go when your number comes up.
 
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