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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
For now. Until the next change in winds. Management. Economy. Or the day there’s a falling out with someone. Sorry, you’ll never convince me Corpie jobs are safe. They’re also subject to volatility, and unlike airlines, there’s even less protections.
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I mean as in you personally having to worry about firing or hiring someone.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
That guy is making a foolish mistake. But hey, there’s one guy now who left Delta to come to our shop. Go figure. Pilots and career decisions is a whole separate thread, one could write volumes about it.
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See, you don't even know all the details why, but you can't help yourself calling them foolish and deriding them. It was their decision, and I'm sure every aspect was over analyzed before making the jump and it was lucrative enough in the ways that mattered to them to make the switch. A very high probability that the money was equal or better, more time at home with the family, better quality of life when on the road, better destinations than hub and spoke 121 flying... Maybe a bonus structure, who knows. I tell you one thing though, they'll never have to wait for the hotel van again. A rental car will be planeside every trip for the rest of his career. There are a lot of reasons people work various jobs. Different strokes for different folks.
 
CFI A&P said:
See, you don't even know all the details why, but you can't help yourself calling them foolish and deriding them. It was their decision, and I'm sure every aspect was over analyzed before making the jump and it was lucrative enough in the ways that mattered to them to make the switch. A very high probability that the money was equal or better, more time at home with the family, better quality of life when on the road, better destinations than hub and spoke 121 flying... Maybe a bonus structure, who knows. I tell you one thing though, they'll never have to wait for the hotel van again. A rental car will be planeside every trip for the rest of his career. There are a lot of reasons people work various jobs. Different strokes for different folks.
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You don't have to tell me. I know a 10th yr AS Capt who left for Spirit.

It is what it is.

MOST Captains I flew with who had worked for multiple airlines, had they stuck with their first big/major carrier they went to, they would have come out far, far ahead than they did in the end. There's a reason we have a saying of waiting until age 65 to see if we made the right move. That is largely true, especially with the cyclical industry and luck, timing of everything. Those things are beyond control. But how many employers one works for, and how many jumps they make, definitely comes into play - and usually for the worse.


There's the example of Zap, but at least in his case, his moves were forced by furloughs. That is entirely separate and understandable. But I believe even he mentioned that he made some bad moves (eg, maybe not accepting a recall when it came).


Now you compare that to voluntary moves made without a threat of furlough. No offense to the one gentlemen here, but there's a JC member who got hired at United at 26, and left after ~5 yrs for Fedex. Or replace that with CFI AP's Corpie company. Either case. No offense to that guy, but I think it's absolutely a bad move to have done that. Especially in the last 15 yrs, which represents about ~60-70% of pilots today at major airlines.

Chasing the greener grass has a potential for back firing.




Side note, extremely minor, I have never cared for hotel transportation (as in look at it a negative way, versus renting a car), but in the post-Covid world I haven't really had to wait for any pre-arranged ride. We seem to have moved away from hotel shuttle only (although that is the only option in a couple cities) to a private company model.
 
I think @Cherokee_Cruiser is conflating dirt bag LR35 135 ops with actual pt 91 flight departments. I don't talk much about 121 for a reason, I've never worked in that environment and he's never worked outside of it. But he thinks as an airline captain he's qualified to judge the entire scope of aviation from some lofty non existent perch. You might not like it but there are lots of pilots (and mechanics) outearning you and living a better life, they just don't broadcast it.
 
knot4u said:
I think @Cherokee_Cruiser is conflating dirt bag LR35 135 ops with actual pt 91 flight departments. I don't talk much about 121 for a reason, I've never worked in that environment and he's never worked outside of it. But he thinks as an airline captain he's qualified to judge the entire scope of aviation from some lofty non existent perch. You might not like it but there are lots of pilots (and mechanics) outearning you and living a better life, they just don't broadcast it.
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Agreed. Or maybe even not “better,” in a universal sense, but “better” for their lifestyle and circumstances.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
That’s why I’ve said “to each their own.”


But me, 91? No thanks.
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You've continually tried to coin, as a pejorative, the term "corpie". 91 in a jet is probably outside of your skill set, and that's fine. The 91 people don't want or need you. You rely heavily on your company rather than yourself and you can always "opt out" of a flight for any reason with very little disturbance to the customers. That attitude does not work on the private side of things. Canceling a flight or changing a destination due to weather is perfectly acceptable, deciding you don't like your co pilot is not. Like I said in a previous post you kind of need an antique ship captain/pirate mentality when you venture out globally in a private jet, you have to fix the problem or you're stuck with a broken airplane and no ride home (not to mention your customers). The company will have your back trying to figure it out but in the meantime you're just a dude sitting in a broken airplane half a world away from home. If you're not at least a little bit of a pirate it's probably not for you.
 
CFI A&P said:
There's a reason that you haven't flown with a former corporate pilot that had a job like Inverted25 is describing. Those shops don't have turn over.

Again, all your aviation jobs have been at 121 shops, which is fine if that's what you want to do. But there's a lot on the 91/135 world that you aren't aware about, and some closely guarded operators that are not discussed here, or APC, or anywhere else.
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Bingo. I got lucky to get into the shop I am. They are extremely secretive. They have been around 50+ years and if you googled anything about their flight department you won’t find anything. I knew they existed but could never get any details about them until I was invited to interview to replace a guy who was leaving after 30+ years. We work hard when at work. Worldwide ops. We hit 70+ countries a year every year in our planes. But we are staffed adequately and it’s not uncommon this time of year to have a month off because the executives like to be home during holiday season with their families.


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Inverted25 said:
I fly my cub all the time. Along with still teach in gliders and airplanes. I like 91 because I have a family and it allows me more time with my kid that any other segment would.


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I'm unsure what sort of airplane you're flying or if you have full time time MX, but it's always appreciated when the sky gods show up and spend time in the hangar just hanging out (bring donuts if it's early, or tacos if it's lunchtime). It's actually one of the coolest things that 121 folks miss out on, because we all rely on this mechanical abomination to run reliably and we get to know each other and many friendships are forged. I'm not saying the work changes at all, but if your friend is flying it you might triple check everything.
 
knot4u said:
You've continually tried to coin, as a pejorative, the term "corpie". 91 in a jet is probably outside of your skill set, and that's fine. The 91 people don't want or need you. You rely heavily on your company rather than yourself and you can always "opt out" of a flight for any reason with very little disturbance to the customers. That attitude does not work on the private side of things. Canceling a flight or changing a destination due to weather is perfectly acceptable, deciding you don't like your co pilot is not. Like I said in a previous post you kind of need an antique ship captain/pirate mentality when you venture out globally in a private jet, you have to fix the problem or you're stuck with a broken airplane and no ride home (not to mention your customers). The company will have your back trying to figure it out but in the meantime you're just a dude sitting in a broken airplane half a world away from home. If you're not at least a little bit of a pirate it's probably not for you.
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What?!

I have never felt pressured as a CA to take a plane or do a flight that I didn't feel comfortable with. The fact you admit the Corpie world isn't like that, is disturbing to say the least. We all remember the Gulfstream from LAX to Aspen. Pressure ended up putting the plane into the side of a hill. At no point will any pax tell me, the pilot, what I should or shouldn't do for airplane safety. Corpies, well that passenger could very well be the owner of the plane. Ouch.

I remember a NetJets pilot job ad back when I was at my regional. It basically said, our customers can smoke or have a parrot on board and you need to be okay with all those things. Um, no. Ain't no one smoking on my plane.

I know, and admit, I'm not cut for the Corpie world.
 
Inverted25 said:
Bingo. I got lucky to get into the shop I am. They are extremely secretive. They have been around 50+ years and if you googled anything about their flight department you won’t find anything. I knew they existed but could never get any details about them until I was invited to interview to replace a guy who was leaving after 30+ years. We work hard when at work. Worldwide ops. We hit 70+ countries a year every year in our planes. But we are staffed adequately and it’s not uncommon this time of year to have a month off because the executives like to be home during holiday season with their families.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Oh, so you do international. Your worse case is more than a 4 day trip, correct? And say the boss wants a 2 week trip to Timbaktu. Do you have to stay those two weeks inside Timbaktu with the plane, or will they commercial you back free to the United States and chill at home until day 12 and fly you back to Timbaktu?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
And those jobs are rare, with job security that pales in comparison. You’re at the whim of the owner(s) of that plane.
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Perceived_121_Security_Chat> Frank_Lorenzo ENTERS THE CHAT
Perceived_121_Security_Chat> Hiya Cherokee, about that...
Perceived_121_Security_Chat> Carl_Icahn ENTERS THE CHAT
Perceived_121_Security_Chat> Carl_Icahn > Hey Frank_Lorenzo! Sup man, you chortled too? :)
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
What?!

I have never felt pressured as a CA to take a plane or do a flight that I didn't feel comfortable with. The fact you admit the Corpie world isn't like that, is disturbing to say the least. We all remember the Gulfstream from LAX to Aspen. Pressure ended up putting the plane into the side of a hill. At no point will any pax tell me, the pilot, what I should or shouldn't do for airplane safety. Corpies, well that passenger could very well be the owner of the plane. Ouch.

I remember a NetJets pilot job ad back when I was at my regional. It basically said, our customers can smoke or have a parrot on board and you need to be okay with all those things. Um, no. Ain't no one smoking on my plane.

I know, and admit, I'm not cut for the Corpie world.
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You're off your rocker. You are the only person I've ever read using the term "corpie". I agree you are not cut out for that world.
 
derg said:
Perceived_121_Security_Chat> Frank_Lorenzo ENTERS THE CHAT
Perceived_121_Security_Chat> Hiya Cherokee, about that...
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Well of course, nothing is safe.

But today more than ever, a pilot is likely to be fine at AA, DL, UA, SW, HAL, AS, B6/NK, and F9. Consolidation has created more job security.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Oh, so you do international. Your worse case is more than a 4 day trip, correct? And say the boss wants a 2 week trip to Timbaktu. Do you have to stay those two weeks inside Timbaktu with the plane, or will they commercial you back free to the United States and chill at home until day 12 and fly you back to Timbaktu?
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Is a Four Seasons in Timbuktu for a week horrible? I don't know, and I suspect you don't either.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Well of course, nothing is safe.

But today more than ever, a pilot is likely to be fine at AA, DL, UA, SW, HAL, AS, B6/NK, and F9. Consolidation has created more job security.
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Yup. That worked out great for…(insert defunct airline that acquired other airlines here). Here’s the thing. It’s a pretty small industry. I’m lucky to have a great 91 job. I’ve had a couple other good ones too. Do I think I’ll go to the airlines? Probably not. Do I want to burn that bridge? Nope. Maybe someday I’ll want to work for a living 🤣
 
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